Operation Game Night
Travis Smith, Jared Erickson, and Clay Gable get together to discuss the latest and greatest in board games in this weekly podcast. What's hot, what's hitting the table, featured discussions about board games and the board gaming culture, and the primary mission objective- to play more board games!
Operation Game Night
Our First D&D Campaign, Part 2
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We finish our first Dungeons and Dragons campaign and unpack how four players grew from hesitant dice rollers into a confident party with distinct voices. Fantasy terms, party synergy, and a villain’s escape shaped how we think about storytelling, systems, and next steps.
• choosing a dragonborn druid and finding agency through description
• easing new players with passive perception and theater of the mind
• comparing D&D to other TTRPGs for better genre fit
• party composition benefits and starting at level three
• fighter and monk arcs across low-level slog to signature moments
• table size, pacing, and spotlight management
• why the villain’s escape can be a satisfying hook
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Welcome to the Operation Game Night Podcast. We're back in better than ever and joined by some friends to talk Dungeons and Dragons. Part two, Electric Boogaloo. Joining me as always is co-host Clayton Gable. How are you doing, Clay?
SPEAKER_00:I'm doing great. Excited to have Jason and Amanda here with us to talk about finishing our first ever Dungeons and Dragons campaign. That's a bucket list for us, you know. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. If you're feeling chilly listening to this episode, it's probably from her icy breath. She is a dragonborn druid. It's Amanda empty nest board mama. How are you doing, Amanda?
SPEAKER_01:Lunara. Lunara.
SPEAKER_04:Lunara.
SPEAKER_01:Lunara.
SPEAKER_04:Lunara the dragonborn. And then we have Dragonborn Druid. The DM. Do you prefer DM or GM?
SPEAKER_03:Either's fine. DM, I guess, I guess is appropriate when it's Dungeons and Dragons and then GM when it's not.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Well, DM slash GM extraordinaire, Jason. Thank you so much for facilitating our first campaign of Dungeons and Dragons.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, it was fun. Happy to do so. Yeah, it was amazing. You did such a good job.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. So we'll we'll talk a little bit about how we played through and our characters and all that stuff. Jason did a phenomenal job. He is truly an expert and really made this an enjoyable experience for three novices and one experienced player. We had a great time, phenomenal. We played over the course of what three months, four months? Like it yeah, it went on. But yeah, what a cool experience. Uh Amanda, we have not talked with you since we started the campaign. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your character and why you decided to go with a dragonborn druid? Tell us a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01:So I have no DD experience whatsoever. I had no idea what I was doing when we talked about doing character creation the first night. I didn't know even there was a handbook or anything. I was literally Googling stuff, like on my way home, trying to figure out what I was supposed to be doing. I should have done a little bit of prior research, but uh the druid uh caught my eye just because I had read uh I caught animal that was animals, and that was part of it. It was like an animal whisperer. So I was like, yep, that sounds good to me. The dragon, yep, you know, I love flamecraft, so I'm all about the dragon life. Um and it was uh with the kind and patient help of Jason, I was able to, you know, pick all of the the characteristics that I wanted for Lunara Silverborn, um, which was also from uh like a D name generator. Okay. So not a lot of my own um not a lot of my own creation. I'll I'll be completely honest with you. Um fantasy uh and things that you can't pronounce and aren't real is really hard for me. Like I I've never seen Lord of the Rings, I have no interest in Harry Potter, like just things that don't exist. My smooth brain doesn't understand. So I think that's why it's taken me 42 years to even have any kind of interest in D. Um, I love the storytelling aspect of it, like that was definitely my favorite part. Um, but like the names you can't remember, like the story itself. Like I really struggled to follow just because it was made up names, made up places, made up, you know, like ballasks and things like this. Like I was constantly Googling the words that Jason was saying when it could have been like this is uh a torch, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's like it's a ballast gonna um I didn't I don't think that's what it was called. What was it called? Travis kept trying to push people into them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a brain. I don't know these words, and so the whole time I was googling stuff, but I really, I really did enjoy it, and it was definitely a learning experience. Um, so it's just those that that's not my world, and and I didn't know um much about it, but I still really, really loved it. I think uh my uh RPG, maybe in the future, if I do it, it would be you know, maybe something like a one shot of Willy Wonka or something that you know I could I could follow along with a little bit better.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I've already got a suggestion for you. Based on what you're saying, because because D D a lot of times is like the catch-all for tabletop role-playing game. It is it is the most popular, you know, is the Coca-Cola of of role-playing games. But there's tons now, especially because like everything's they became so popular in the last 10-15 years. Um, if fantasy isn't your speed, uh, one of the really fun ones that I played with my friends was kids on bikes, which is sort of a uh it's very much like Stranger Things, ET. It's it's uh you are a bunch of kids on bikes or not, but it takes you you usually set it in a time period where like internet and cell phones weren't prevalent. So like pretty much like the early, like mid to early 90s or before. And yeah, you're there's something supernatural. Usually the kids get a NPC ally that's controlled by the DM, who is a um power has powers in some way, could kind of like 11 from Stranger Things or some other some other thing. And you can do a very freeform adventure with that system, and it's really it's there's no fantasy apart from like any that you choose to add into the game itself. But it's that one's a really fun one. And uh you as players get to craft the world uh together with it before you start. You actually sit around the table and decide like where do you want it to take place, what year do you want it to take place? So you get to build the world together. So you might that one might be a fun one for you. And I could name like a dozen others that we could talk about offline that might be a good one.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, that sounds awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Fantasy's not, and fantasy is not for everybody, too. So I totally get it. Well, that's that's all I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_01:It's not that I wasn't not for me, it's just not something I've ever been interested in previously.
SPEAKER_02:Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01:So a lot of the terminology was just really a lot of things that I had no idea what they were. So it was a great learn, it was a really great learning experience, and that's the way I think I approached like everything in life. Like it's just a learning experience. I I didn't do great, I rolled for crap, I didn't know what I was doing. Um, I probably wasn't the best, you know, team player. Um, just I just kind of showed up.
SPEAKER_03:I don't think that's group. No, not at all. I think I think if you were the only one of the four players who had any sort of healing, who had any thought to take uh healing magic or abilities to heal your allies, which already I think you're a team player just for doing that. Because you could have taken just all attack spells or or or self-protection spells, but you said no, I want to take good berry and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:So already constantly tried to thrust those good berries at everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you tried to cast good berries so many times.
SPEAKER_01:Take my berries, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so Jason, I was gonna I was gonna say, like, Amanda says she doesn't she kind of shies away from fantasy types and settings, and I feel like that's the stereotypical Dungeons and Dragons adventure, right? There's names that you've never heard of before and places that you'll never go, and and people just like kind of glaze over. So, what's a good way do you think to onboard people into this sort of setting, right? Like we had a pretty tame one, right? We're not I mean, there's creatures and things like that in magic, and it's a it's a fantasy setting, but are there some five fifth edition, fourth edition Dungeons and Dragons campaigns that are more like straight down the alley, like not so fantasy heavy and more adventure heavy? Is that what we did?
SPEAKER_02:The one that you did was pretty was pretty user, like beginner friendly.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, I mean, D D D in general is always going to be fantasy-based. It's it's a high magic system. Sure. Um, you know, most of the player rate, most of the player class options have magic, all right. Like right out the gate. Very like fighter and a few other like barbarian, don't have any magic, but otherwise, there's at least a magic option almost for every class. Um, at that point, you could you could either, if you wanted to keep playing DD, you could there's a lot of homebrews and hacks where they change it completely. There is, I mean, I don't know what your film interests are. Someone has taken fifth edition DD and they turn they uh turned it into Star Wars, so it's Star Wars 5e. So they've reskinned everything and changed the rules to fit the Star Wars universe, and you could you could do adventures and stuff if you're more of like a science fiction person, although some people say Star Wars is also fantasy because of the force. Um uh you you could so but I honestly something people try to do is they will try to make DD work for like be the be all and end all game for their players, and sometimes you just have to realize it's like, oh, I'm trying to do a different story that would it would behoove me to pick a different game system entirely, even if your players have to learn a new rule set, it might benefit you in the long run. Like there are um like sci-fi cyberpunk hacks for Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition, but I chose in uh last year, I ran for my players Cyberpunk Red, the actual Cyberpunk game, just because I wanted to go like to the source and run the official um system. So it really depends, but uh I think as for to answer your actual your actual question, no, I mean almost every DD adventure that I've played is pretty much you know, you're getting you're you're going into dungeons, you're fighting monsters using magic and you know medieval-esque weaponry. Um so it's it's tough to really escape from that, unless unless you do something where it's you go very you you completely homebrew the world. Um there's a let's play on Dimension 20, uh, which is part of Dropout. Um they do let's plays of DD, and their second season was Unsleeping City, and it was modern, magical New York City. Okay. But it was it was using DD classes, but it took place modern day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that would be something you could do. If you wanted to get away from a fantasy world, you could set it in the real world. Um, and you'd have to reskin a lot of things though.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I as somebody that's been kind of in this sphere for a while, like you've been playing Dungeons and Dragons since what 20 years.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, good lord, no, no. I mean, I've I've always liked fan, I've always liked fantasy and game, like our like video game RPGs and stuff. But I've all uh D D was one of those things I always wanted to play and never really got a chance to until I want to say like 2019, that I joined joined the group that I currently play in. Wow. And we actually started with Pathfinder, um, but and then COVID hit, and we all went home. And uh literally the day we were supposed to play, our DM canceled, and then later we found out that two of the players that were gonna show up had COVID at the time. So uh that would have been great. But uh no, we I it was around 2019 that I joined their group, and then we started playing online through the pandemic, and that's we switched to 5e because there was more support for it to play it virtually, yeah. Uh, and so we started playing that um online. Uh and then yeah, so it's been maybe like it's been like six uh six or seven years that I've been I've been really into it, but I've always like wanted, I've always been interested, but just never had the group or the um or any of like the materials, and so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But it's all it's also gotten more approachable now, like it's becoming more mainstream, right? I also feel like especially lately now that I'm keeping my eye out for it, there are a thousand different RPGs that you could run. You've mentioned cyberpunk and you know the kids on bikes, and there's uh there's literally a RPG for any sort of universe that you want to live in. Do you feel at all that that is like fracturing the community to like where they're splitting up to do these all all these other campaigns and people are moving away from Dungeons and Dragons? Or is it growing at a similar pace? Like, what's that community like?
SPEAKER_03:It's it's interesting because it really depends on your play group. So I have in my group, we have one we have one person who is more often than not the DM for our main game that we play on Fridays. He he likes to DM because we always say, like, do you want a break? He's like, No, he likes being a DM, but I am gonna get to run him a game soon, just so he gets to be a player, just because it's like, you know, I want to thank him for you know running games every week for us. But uh he is a fiend for collecting new systems and reading through the books and then wanting to run them. Um, the problem is some of our players, and I'm guilty of this too, is sometimes it's like we want to get like we when we play a new RPG, we want to play like a couple games of it rather than jump from system to system to system and learn new rules each time. Which is why you see some play some groups, the DM will be like, please, I want to run something other than Dungeons and Dragons, and all the players are like, no, we like it. We will we'll like I have all these characters made, I want to keep playing DD. And so, and then and at that point, that's when the DM should say to the player, it's like, well, how about you run DD and I get to be a player? Because if the DM's not having fun running, then they they need to take a break. Um, but I don't think it necess I don't think the the the the wide array of games are necessarily breaking player bases. Like D D D is still popular, it's still it's still top dog and it's doing fine, but there's different people are releasing different games to try to, you know, why why are people moving why why would you create a fantasy game uh in 2025 or 2026 that's but like why would you create a game to compete with DD unless you had something important that you want to like you have like something that's bothers you enough about DD that you want to play differently? And that's where you've seen games like Critical Role came out with Dagger Heart, uh MCDM came out with um draw steel, which was like the most successful TTRPG Kickstarter of all time. That one just released. Um, and so there's a lot of different systems. Uh and it really depends depends on your your table and what what they find fun. Some tables are like we want to go kill monsters and get loot, other tables are perfectly fine if they spend the entire session just like talking to town folk and and and or or or like exploration is really important to some players. I I mean I like I'm about a like a 30-30, like a 33, 33, 33, like even split between like those three pillars, social combat, exploration. But you know, depending on the day, I could be more in the mood for one or the other. Um, so it really it really depends.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I think to your point earlier, I think the campaign that we ran was a pretty even split amongst those three. We we did more murdering than we did probably talking, but like I think initially we came at it so hesitant to like make any sort of decision, and by the time we're in like our second dungeon, we were kicking indoors and you know flying through the thing and trying to kill everything that we came across. But like I think that was at least a good introduction into how you navigate this world, right? Like we ended it, we entered that first clearing. We're like, okay, there's some dead horses in the road, and we all just kind of like sat there silent and like, okay, what are my options? What do I do? And thank God we had you know you to help guide us through, and and Meg to um, you know, as a as the experienced player to help us navigate those types of decisions, but like I feel like we were just kind of like shrugging at each other, like, well, what's next?
SPEAKER_03:Like, no, I'm with you. I mean, analysis paralysis, especially for a new player, is very real. And so I a lot of times I think what hangs people up, and it I think I'm not sure if it was worse for you guys playing online as opposed to when I when you played in first person, but when I played that very same adventure you played, when I played it as a brand new player, I found myself staring at my character sheet a lot, being like, What can I do? What can I do? And my DM kind of had to stop me and say, like, what do you want to do? Like, not don't worry about the mechanics. You tell me what you want to do in this world, and I will tell you if you need to first of all, I'll tell you if you even need to roll for it. Because sometimes somebody wants to do something, and it's like, you're they'll they'll succeed at that. I'm not gonna make them like if if if there's no chance of somebody failing something, like I don't make you roll to breathe every few seconds, I don't make you roll to walk forward. Yeah, so it's one of those you know, some some DMs like you to roll for everything. I'm I'm not that kind of person. So it is one of those there is this analysis paralysis when you first start because you're not sure what are the rules, like what are the constraints? And very much it's it for new players. I like to tell them it's like, you know, you do you tell me what you want to do in this world, and and we'll go from there. Um sometimes sometimes map you guys are on a map at that point. Playing on a map can sometimes be a little limiting because you'll kind of zoom and be like, well, where do I move my character? What do I do? Theater of the mind can help with that. And sometimes if we're just having a scene where characters are talking, I don't even have any map or anything. Sure. So that nobody like all you're just you're just visualizing what's happening with the conversation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And and I, yeah, Amanda, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I want to say as uh the DM, I think the most helpful thing that I noticed that you did was you would always ask us, like, what does that look like? Or what you know that that that put us there, that gave us that um agency to be able to like, oh, I'm doing you know, the thorn whip and this is what it looks like. And that was, I think that was my favorite part of it.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I'm glad you liked that. I'm a big fan, especially with magic, because magic is well, it's different for every in everybody's imaginations. Like, what's magic to you? And so when, you know, when you yeah, like you said, when you cast a druidic spell or when when our wizard casts any of her arcane magic, I'm always asking, like, this is the first time you've cast that spell. What does your like what does that look like? What does it look like when when your breath weapon goes off and you've and you freeze these goblins, like, you know, with with with cold coming out of your mouth? Like, I want to like like paint me a picture. Um, because it makes you feel it makes you feel cool because you guys are heroes of the story. Um, and it it's you know, uh, I I I'm guilty of this too. So I don't, I I try to remember to, when I'm describing stuff, not just say, well, here's the map, you know, take a look and see. Oh, I should be describing what you guys are seeing, and not only that, but like what you're smelling. What do you hear right now? Like, like this, it like the the castle is so like old and moldy, you can almost taste it, that kind of thing. So you definitely want to like reach out with the five senses when you're describing as a DM, because a lot you're really relying on col a collective imagination. Um, we're kind of all plugged into the matrix and we're all kind of computing the same game together. And I and I can throw, you know, maps and and like you know, vistas and tools to like help you visualize it, but ultimately it's like me describing something is gonna, and you know, when people are playing around the table, there's even less like in a physical table, there's even there's even less multimedia assistance. It's all what I say is you know uh uh is what what hopefully you know create creates a clear image in your mind and not like a muddy one.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I think I think we each brought our own like unique flavor to our characters as we got used to the systems and got used to our characters and what they can do and can't what they what they might be good at and what they're not good at. And like Amanda, your your character went from like thorn whipping. That was like basically that was basically it, right? I had unarmed strike, and that was about it for the monk. And you had thorn whip, and by the end, you're like turning into every different creature, you're you have all sorts of different powers, and you really like grew into it. So, how do you feel like tell talk to me about the development of your character from beginning to end? Like, how do you feel you grew? How do you feel like you ended up? Are you happy with the character that you ended up with?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So, like I said, I picked it because it talked about like animals and stuff, and that's an interest of mine. So that made it easier. And then once I found out that I could turn into these animals, made it even cooler. So yeah, in the beginning, it was very, very timid, very scared, like not sure of anything. You know, I'm like, oh, I'll do Thorn Whip, you know. And I was very just yeah, very unsure, I'll say. Um, but at the end, I was I progressed into, I wanted to try everything. I I learned a lot more. Um, you know, just again, all of these words, you know, like you're in a melee attack, so that means like you have to be next to the person. Sure, you can't be 30 feet away doing the thord with so I really I really enjoyed the the growth of not only my character but of also of my own knowledge of the system.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome. Clay, we haven't heard from you. What about your character? Like you're kind of reviving one that you had played previously. You had played like a barbarian fighter type person, and now you're you carry that over into this game kind of. Talk to us about uh pogo Vondo.
SPEAKER_00:Pogo Pogo is an artifact of me also being unsure and scared. And I from what I understood, a fighter was pretty straightforward, you know. Especially in the early levels, and that proved to be true. You pretty much go in and you swing your weapon, and you don't have to worry about much else, honestly. I had a couple special abilities like second wind and action surge, but um, at the end of the day, I chose a fighter out of simplicity and because you know that's kind of the person I wanted to play. I wanted to be the guy that goes in and you know isn't afraid to take the damage and hopefully has a huge blow with his great axe and you know deals the the final you know injury to the green skull. So that and boy, it was it was tough at times being a fighter in the early early levels of things because you would sit in combats and you know some of these combats, especially with new players, and people are like, Oh, what can I do? And you know, like you know, going through all that, and especially and there's like you know, seven enemy combatants you gotta run through, and it gets gets back to your turn. And I know what I'm gonna do. I knew what I was gonna do when we walked into the dungeon. I was gonna swing my sword, and so I I you know gear up, I swing my sword, I miss, and I move on, and then I wait another you know 10 minutes till it's my turn again. So I think that you know it's kind of a give and take with being a fighter like that is you know, you it's when the highs are high, but you also have those lows, especially when you don't have a lot of mitigation at those early stages. I mean, I would spend my inspiration pretty much the first time I missed a die roll, I would spend my inspiration to re-roll. Uh, because it just doesn't feel good to wait around for your turn and then do absolutely nothing. Um, but yeah, that was Pogo. We had some great moments. I think I I smashed the the skull into two flaming bits that went flying to other parts of the room, and that was a huge moment for Pogo. Um, but there were also a lot of whiffs in there and a lot of almost dyings. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Good berries.
SPEAKER_04:Do you do you feel like the combat got samey for you? Like, were you bored with that mechanism or that action towards the end? Or like, because you you've got like the magic, more magic-heavy characters being the druid and the uh wizard, and they're like casting all sorts of crazy spells and turning into animals and stuff, and like you're swinging great swords every other turn. So, like, do you feel like that was too samey for you? Would you like to venture off into something else next time?
SPEAKER_00:I will say I was I was a little jealous when I would watch you guys take your turns, and it would be like, Oh, Travis did his quarter staff, and then he also gets to do flurry of blows, and then he activates a key to do some other thing, yeah. And then you know, magic missiles always hits, and so that was exciting to see happen. But I will say, when I got my my flame touched, my flame engulfed great sword at the end, yeah, I would never go back because when I rolled those 6d6 and dealt 36 damage, that felt so good. That was worth every whiff.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that that was my thing. Was like I I didn't really know anything about the classes or the characters or the archetypes that you can play. Uh, I've played RPGs in the past, but I kind of flipped through and thought, like, I haven't experienced a monk before. Typically, when I play a let's say video game RPG or whatever, I'm just like a brawler, right? I'm gonna go in there, I'm gonna swing my sword, I'm gonna get stronger, I'm gonna be sword and bored and have like my my shield and my great sword or whatever it is. And so I wanted to do something a little bit different. And those first couple levels seems like to be a kind of a slog for me, um, just because you have unarmed strike and like that was it, and you're just doing that over and over and over again. Then you get the key, and the key kind of like you know, extends those turns a little bit. And then um I I feel like if I would have gone further, the coolest I ever felt playing the monk, the half work monk, was when I caught the when I caught the uh arrow that the goblin shot at me and was able to turn around and like whip it back at him. I missed on the on the return throw, but like that feels cool, and that's like something unique that you know only my character could do. And those little moments in uh you know in our campaign felt like they really shine for me. Um, I might have not gotten not have gotten that progression, like the wizard or whatever that had different things every single time they sat down at the table, but like the unique things that I could do felt really cool. Um, I think there was another chant, another turn where like I don't know, we were uh I think we jumped down in a cavern or something, and I just like I had my my slow float or whatever, and I was able to like jump off the cliff and you guys were like scurrying down the rope, even if I'm just imagining that and we all got down just the same. Like it seems kind of cool that only my character could do that and it has applications later. You kind of build out these like unforeseen futures in your character just by envisioning what they could do uh based on their abilities. So yeah. Uh Jason, you saw us kind of fumble our way through and you saw our character archetypes that we ended up playing. Do you feel like we had good team synergy in terms of our classes? Do you feel like we could have done something better? Was there something when we first started that you want us to see it, wanted to see us do that we didn't?
SPEAKER_03:No, I I well, I I wanted you guys to play the character you wanted to play. Um, DD, I would say DD 5th edition is nice in that like it's not one of those games where someone has to be like you have to be the healer for the group, like you don't need that because the game is generous with things like short rests and being able to like take a breather and roll some hit dice to heal up in between combats. It's not as punishing as some as the game used to be. Old DD was like you had to have a cleric in your party to heal you, otherwise you know, you just weren't, you know, gonna get your hit points back. Um, but no, I thought your I thought your composition was pretty good. You had two people that could go in and fight in the front lines, you had a wizard who could hang back, and then you could have a druid who could flex, who could cast spells, or turn into a bear or a panther and then jump in. So I thought that was I thought you actually the four of you had a pretty good flexible um like like party composition. I thought and you all picked different um ancestries that have their own strengths. Um so I thought, yeah, I thought overall you were pr you were pretty so for a new group, you were pretty solid party composition. Um I wasn't too worried about that. Um and to your point, yeah, I I think that is the problem with with low-level play sometimes, is you don't have a lot of those fun abilities that don't come online until later. And that's why some games, some some DMs will start players at level two or even level three, where like they get their subclass, yeah, um, right from the beginning, just so that which that that that is the one thing is that is nice is as a DM, you can you have more hit points at level two or level three. So I'm not worried about accidentally critting on you in round one of level one combat and you killed. Um but uh no, I I actually was I was impressed with the party composition. I thought it was a good party. Um, I thought it was funny that Klay ended up picking a dwarven fighter because when I I did I did run him, I won on one DD game like a year or two ago, and uh and he was a different dwarven fighter. Yes, uh different name. But then again, dwarf I mean dwarf dwarven fighter is is a very powerful combination. And if you do enjoy if you do enjoy the martial aspect of fighter, you might enjoy Barbarian, uh, which is the which is the tankiest of classes, they have the most health, they can go into a rage, and all damage is like halved against them. Um but I would say if you were jealous of the casters, there are classes that are called half caster classes, um, like the ranger or the paladin, where they're they're a martial class that also has some magic sprinkled in. So they're not a full caster like a wizard, but they have a little bit of magic. Um, even though when I played a paladin, I used all my magic to divine smite every monster I hit with my sword. So um just pump extra damage into it. But uh those would be some I could definitely see like if you needed suggestions if you're gonna play again, um, what what kind of class you want to play based on at least on like knowing your guys' playstyle now.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. And so we played at four players. Is there like a diminishing returns in terms of like player count? Like if once we get up to like a party of five or six, like what is that upper limit where you start losing that engagement?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's a good point. That's interesting. Uh I mean I've played in games of all like all different sizes. I would say the gate most adventures and challenge rating of monsters is designed around a party of four people. Okay. Um, but I've run games for a party of three. Um, I wouldn't go, I wouldn't go lower. Like I would rather run a one-on-one session like I did for Clay than play with two players. I feel like two players would be hard. Three is probably the is the lowest I would go, and uh the highest I would go is probably six. I feel like if you like because a lot of times with six players, maybe a player can't make it, then you still have a like a squad of five, which is really strong. Um, but anything beyond six, I feel like sharing the spotlight between all the players is gonna be hard. Yeah, I feel like it's it's there's a lot of people, and everybody wants to have like their moment, and it's just it's for some people it may just not happen because there's just so many. Even if I like add additional monsters to the board, just so that you know, because six six against you know, three goblins would be a stomp. So maybe we'll throw some like ogres or whatever in there to to mix it up. Um, I still think anything beyond six players is gonna be pretty, pretty tough.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Plus, I think like anything outside of combat when you're interacting with people, villagers, whoever it is, like those interactions might get tough with that many people. You almost have to like designate the people to do the talking, and then the people do you know, play their roles in their fighting, and and you have to kind of divvy up that way to get that level of engagement. So yeah. Oh well, I don't want to drag this on too long. Uh Amanda, closing thoughts on you the campaign on D D on your character. What do you got?
SPEAKER_01:I think Clay had something to say first.
SPEAKER_00:No, wait, no, Travis is always trying to shut things down. I got more to talk about. Just give me one more minute. I got one more question for Jay. How about you? Go ahead. I got one more question for Jason, and then I'll let you put a pin in this thing. Um, so we kind of talked about it how at the beginning we were pretty trepidatious, and like everything we did was like, well, let's perceive, let's everybody roll for perception so we can see what we see. You know, every did we smell a fart? Everybody was like trying to check out every little thing everywhere we went. And then till the end, we were just you like Travis said, we were just going through rooms, and it felt like we were maybe too far on the other end of the spectrum where we were missing things because we weren't, you know, taking the time to do that. On the one hand, it felt like overly laborious to always be like, okay, let's see what we see in this room, and like everybody has to roll for that. But is it was there a sweet spot we missed somewhere in there where we were we just blew from one end to the other?
SPEAKER_03:Not that I recall. No. I mean, there is also a thing in DD called passive perception, which is it takes if you if you take an average die roll of 10 and then adds your perception score to it, and there are certain things where it's like just if if the player's passive perception is higher than this score, they just see it. You they don't make them roll for it. They walk into the room, they see the thing, they see the secret switch, and they can go over and flick this and open up the door. So there's there is I use that when I when I notice that like one of you has a high enough passive perception that like yeah, you just you just solve it. But it's yeah, it's it's tough because yeah, you don't want to you don't want to play the game like afraid to go on the adventure, right? Um, but no, I don't think you guys missed I don't think you really missed anything critical that I recall. I think there might have been it was a treasure chest that you missed in the basement of the abandoned manor house. That was like one thing, but it was in the crevasse with the uh giant eyeball monster. And you kind of you kind of rightfully like were like, we're gonna leave that guy alone a bunch of people. So I uh there was a chest with like I think a magic sword and some other stuff down there.
SPEAKER_04:Um but uh boot it up, boot it up, we're going back. Turn the game on.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, at the tail end of the game, you guys ended up inheriting that house, so you could make a deal with that creature to get the treasure chest. That's right. See him see him some more uh bandits.
SPEAKER_00:Heck yeah. All right, Travis, you can you can do you can do your outro or whatever you want to do.
SPEAKER_04:All right, Amanda, you you had a moment to think about it. Any like overarching thoughts about D D? Are you gonna go back to it ever? Gonna try it again sometime, maybe a different RPG. What are your what are your final thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would love to try it again. Um, I I would love to hear some other non-fantasy, non-sci-fi kind of ones. I think that I would be uh easier, it would be easier for me to jump in and and do character creation um with things that I know and understand. But I I love that I would do it again, even in the DD world now, kind of knowing what I know and having done some research and put some time in. Um, yeah, I definitely enjoyed it. And I think Jason made for like probably the best first time experience. So I don't know if I'll be able to have as good as an experience with anybody else.
SPEAKER_04:So definitely spoiled us for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Clay, final thoughts. Dungeons and Dragons.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, it was it was epic. I am so glad that you guys agreed to do it with us. Jason, thank you. I've I've been talking to Jason about Dungeons and Dragons for six years, probably. You know, since he got into it, um, you know, he would tell me about them like, whoo! I mean, like, I like play board games, but that's like a whole nother thing. I don't know if I got the cojones to jump into DD. And finally, you know, the stars aligned and Jason agreed to do this. And I'm I'm glad we did it. It's definitely different than board gaming for sure. Like there's there's a lot more to it. And I I wish I was in a place in my life where I had more time because it does demand a lot of time. That's I mean, that's the thing. Like, you can't sure you can probably do a one-shot here and there, but to really get the full experience, like the campaign is great because you can get excited about the next piece of the journey you're going on, and like, okay, I wonder what's happening next. And it just, you know, you get to a certain part in life, and it's like that's the worst part about it is that you got people with jobs and kids and trying to coordinate schedules and you know get find time to have a two and a half, three hour session every now and then. It's like, you know, if it's just uh it's a big barrier to entry, but it behind that barrier is something like worth exploring. And I I hope to I want to do another one sometime this year, yeah. Um, even if it's just Jason and me and the kids doing quest again for a for a second go-through, but um yeah, it's just like nothing I've experienced before.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so it's great.
SPEAKER_00:I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_04:Jason, any closing thoughts as the DM wrapping this campaign?
SPEAKER_03:No, it was uh I would say the only thing I I after it was all over, I was like, I was I was second guessing the ending because the bad guy got away. Terrible, terrible. Oh and I I was kick, I was like, I was kicking myself a little bit and then not kicking myself, and I went back and forth on it because I was like, he is he is a sinister dark elf who was getting his bell rung by you guys, and he saw an opening to flee, and he took it, and I was like, would he try to like regroup and fight? And I think all of his minions were gone, and so I think I had I had him piece out. I think that was the right thing to do. It made sense for the story, but it did leave for like an unsatisfying, I understand it can leave for like an unsatisfying ending for the players, and so you know, but that that's an open that's a great hook for like if you have a recurring game group and it's like the adventure ends and he gets away, it's like, well, maybe you know he shows up again in the next, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I thought about that a lot, and I'm like, man, that was so unsatisfying. But the more I sat with it, I I I think I like it because it kind of subverted expectations, right? In my mind, when I'm playing Dungeons and Dragons, you beat the bad guy at the end, the party high fives, everybody skips off into the sunset, and it just felt like it really subverted those expectations of what Dungeons and Dragons is in my mind. And to be able to sit there and be like, Well, we didn't even get him. Like he's he's out there somewhere in this world that is lived in and has these characters that exist outside of our little party. It just feels like more real. And I felt like that. Um that was that's gonna stick with me for a while for sure, especially as I go into future campaigns or whatever that do have those more predictable endings or whatever it is. Um, yeah, I I I think I like it. I think I I like that decision as a DM. I like the decision for our group and how we handled things going through. Um, I you should not feel bad about that ending at all because I think it made sense.
SPEAKER_00:It made sense. If anything else that happened, it would have been you putting a big thumb on the scale, yeah, because that's that's what needed to happen. Yeah, it it made sense.
SPEAKER_03:I I have in my prior cyberpunk game, I babied my players probably too much, and that's a very dark, like it's the dark future game. So I probably should have been more merciless, but sometimes it's like uh I don't want to be that cruel. I like the collaborative storytelling aspect of RPGs, and so I was like, okay, well, they're not gonna die, but this guy doesn't want to die either, so he's gonna piece out, and you know, and you and you ended up you still win, you've secured the mine, and you know, everybody's happy. It's just there's a man out there who knows the location and he might come back. Yeah, I like it.
SPEAKER_04:And with that, I think we'll leave on that cliffhanger. What a good way to wrap this episode. This has been Operation Game Night. We're talking Dungeons and Dragons, our very first campaign. I have been Travis, he has been Clay, she has been the empty nest board mama, Amanda, and he has been our wonderful DM, Jason. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for talking, Dungeons and Dragons. Thank you for facilitating Jason. And we are out.
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