Operation: Game Night
Travis Smith, Jared Erickson, and Clay Gable get together to discuss the latest and greatest in board games in this weekly podcast. What's hot, what's hitting the table, featured discussions about board games and the board gaming culture, and the primary mission objective- to play more board games!
Operation: Game Night
OGN Ep 33: Engineer Thoughts on Engine Building Games
Engine building games create deeply satisfying gameplay experiences that mimic real-life decision-making through resource management and strategic planning. We explore what makes these games so compelling and highlight some of our all-time favorites.
• Engine builders are games where you exchange resources to become more efficient at gathering resources
• Games typically start slow with limited actions, then accelerate as your engine develops
• Splendor represents one of the purest examples of engine building with its gem-collecting mechanics
• Terraforming Mars offers a rich thematic setting where blue cards create powerful ongoing effects
• Gizmos functions like "Splendor on steroids" with satisfying chain reactions and marble-drawing mechanics
• Seven Wonders combines drafting with engine building across three distinct ages
• Engine building games reflect real-life decision-making about investments and trade-offs
• Underwater Cities is touted as the "Terraforming Mars killer" with similar resource management concepts
• Engine building often combines with other mechanisms like deck building and tableau building
Tune in next month for our special Big Boy Game Night when Jerry visits Alabama for an epic gaming session!
See Wyatt Hendrickson's winning match here: https://youtu.be/IwfUPELy6HA?si=xM46-foPCMZHYjw8
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Welcome to the Operation Game Night podcast, episode 33.
Speaker 2:I'm your host, Travis.
Speaker 1:Smith, joining me, as always, is my co-host. You've heard of Bob the Builder. He's what you get when you order Bob the Builder off of Wish. He's Jerry the Job Guy.
Speaker 2:Jerry the Job Guy. Hell yeah, timu, bob the Builder, were you about to hit me with that? Yeah, dude, I just want to say, trav, I am so excited for Engine Builders today I wore my red horse shirt today. Shout out to all the horsemen out there, to the horse, to the horse, to the horse.
Speaker 1:I was conflicted. I was going to potentially bust out my red horse hat. Oh, I didn't want to be put to shame and you called me on my BS because I deployed with those guys but I wasn't actually assigned. I don't want to catch any flack. Live on the air.
Speaker 2:Hey, there's still time. I could see you as a red horse commander. To the horse you got the height for it. It just rolled off your tongue. You said to the horse I'm like, yes, I'm ready. Also, travis, I have the most epic over the fence. You are going to lose your mind. Just be prepared for that. I'm just leaving you some breadcrumbs there.
Speaker 1:Should we not bury the lead? Let's let's talk about, over the fence from last week, wyatt hendrickson oh my gosh holy smokes yes yeah, our listener. For our listener, wyatt hendrickson is a guy, a air force lieutenant, that went to the air force academy and was a wrestler there. He was phenomenal, he what.
Speaker 2:He placed many, multiple times at nationals but never won yeah, he was two time uh or three time all-american at the air force academy and so that that meant he placed in the top eight of the of the nation. But he he never quite got to the finals, but he was able to graduate from the Air Force Academy but still had a year of eligibility because of COVID and had an awesome opportunity to go to a great school, oklahoma State.
Speaker 1:Okies.
Speaker 2:Okie, I mean kaboom. I don't know if you're supposed to say something when you do the finger guns. And I was on pins and needles the whole time watching the match. Did you get to see it? You probably didn't watch it live. Didn't watch it live.
Speaker 1:Way too early for you. First thing I looked at when we woke up was that match. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, Round one. Three minutes of action. In the first round he did get. He got taken down and he was from behind for the rest of the match until the last 30 seconds. Wyatt goes in on a single leg and I mean, he ain't wrestling. No scrub here. No, gable Steveson, he's an Olympic gold medalist. This guy, he played for the Bills. Yeah, he's a WWE wrestler. Okay, two amazing mountains of men and forces of nature. It was beautiful to watch. If you follow us on instagram, you can see me and clay absolutely losing our minds when he won that match. Um, I, I was telling clay I think I paid for the upgraded simulation. Um, I don't know if you believe that we're living in a simulation. I'm just, we're in the matrix. I'm just the real me Is in some kind of ziplock bag, but I paid for the Upgraded simulation when Wyatt, he won the gold. So really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was crazy, and if you have not Seen it, I will put a link to the In the show notes, because it's worth watching it. It's so good, the announcers are phenomenal, the tension beforehand is phenomenal, and then to have it build up in the last 30 seconds and Gable Steveson has never been taken down. Never been taken down? Yeah, he had never had a takedown against him. And in the last 30 seconds in the national championship match, he finally, like, turns that corner, hooks the leg, dumps him you can feel, you can just feel all of america behind him.
Speaker 2:He got, he got that single leg and he got, he got two hands on it and he I think gable steven's like I can just kick this back. I've done this a million times and he tries to kick back and like what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object you know what I'm saying Like a collision of titanic forces. That leg wasn't moving. Like oh my gosh, getting goosebumps just thinking about it Again. Again, it's just a week ago, but I digress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll definitely link the video in the show notes, because it's worth a watch for sure. Oh yeah, big time. But let's not bury the other lead, which is we are talking engine builders today. We're going to talk about what they are, why they're so good and some of our favorites, but before we do that, we're going to debrief our week, and then we are going to go over the fence and talk about what we've been doing outside of board gaming, which I'm very excited to hear about. Oh yeah, so, uh, jared, why don't you debrief your week for me?
Speaker 2:all right. So I mean, I'm just tapping back into a week and a half ago, when I was in the gables basement we hit up, uh, seven wonders. Uh, this is just a phenomenal game. I mean, dare I say, engine builder maybe, because, uh, what we're, what you're doing here multiple rounds over the course of three eras, I believe you call it, um, what you're doing is you're spending either coins or resource tags that you currently already have gained by building your engine to buy different other resources to build your engine, to essentially build your wonder and build up your army as well.
Speaker 2:So there's a couple of different phases to it. At the very beginning, the first era, there's era the cards that you're buying are very cheap. The victory points that you're getting maybe not that big, but you're setting the groundwork for future eras. One of my favorite parts about this Seven Wonders too, is it creates like almost shortcut. With some of these cards you can get specific cards that later on in the game it's it's essentially you can get another card for free if you have this card earlier in the game. So, like I think one of them is like a stables card. So if you invest in a, in a warrior card uh, those red ones, I don't know what the official term.
Speaker 1:I think they're like warfare card or something.
Speaker 2:So they got the red cards with the two knives crossed. You can get one of them and if they have a unique symbol on them, in the future, if you have a card that has that same unique symbol, you can just gain that without paying those resources. So if you're on our youtube, you can see hey, you got wood, brick, there's ore and stuff, and so you're gaining these resources to buy other cards. Another awesome feature of this is you can use your neighbor's resources as well. Oh yeah, you got to pay them, pay to play, and so you either get the card. You pay the resources, either within your own engine, or maybe you have to pay your neighbors for their resources. You can build a wonder of your own own. So underneath you can see the player mats.
Speaker 2:Each person has a unique wonder and their wonder gives them also unique powers. Maybe it's just victory points, but maybe it's additional resources to build your engine a little bit more. Maybe it's some more of those warrior cards to help you out in the battles. Um and and you can it. It also leads to the end, the last era. You can, you know, score extra victory points if you're able to build your entire seven wonder um and the warrior cards are pretty unique and cool too, because at the end of each of the three eras you go to battle with your neighbors to the left and the right of you. So obviously you don't want to sit next to Travis, because he's going to be very good about what he's handing you, because that's another great feature of this game.
Speaker 2:You'll get these cards, you'll decide which one you want and then you pass them to your neighbor, and so if you're sitting next to your neighbors, you're giving them cards. You know what you're giving them because you are looking at them before you slide them over to them. But you also need them in certain situations where you can pay them coins to use their resources. But then at the end of each of the areas one, two and three, you have to go to battle with them. So whoever has the most little symbols the warrior symbols with the knives crossed you earn victory points. If you win, if you have more than them, if you have less than them, you lose points.
Speaker 1:Or if you're equal, you're equivalent. I don't think anything happens, right you're, you're just at peace. Yeah, I think it's a tie and nothing happens.
Speaker 2:Nobody gets advantage have you ever been in a situation where you know there's some table talk going on like, hey, we're not going to war, you don't pick up any, I don't pick up any, we're just going to be chill, anything like that? I feel like are you always going to battle?
Speaker 1:I feel like that's happened before, or especially like if they know that somebody's getting close to building a wonder, then they, like people on either side, will gang up on that one person. But uh, uh, yeah, I don't know. I I feel like I've um, that's happened to me in seven wonders, architects, where you're building your wonder, but that's a that's a little bit different because the game is largely based on luck and which cards come up and when they need it. So not quite as much strategy in that one as there is an og seven wonders yeah, but this one.
Speaker 2:I huge fan of seven wonders, carlin. Um, we got a shout-out to Carlin Olive. She let us stay with her during spring break last week as well. Thank you for letting Jemmy run around the house and destroy everything and throw water and food. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Carlin loves this game. Huge shout-out to the entire Seven Wonders universe. You shouted out Seven Wonders Architects, seven Wonders Duel. Also great mechanics that you know. You go back and forth on, like a shared pyramid of cards. Like I love it. No wonder this thing won the 2011 Spiel des Jahres. Yeah, did I pronounce that right? Perfect Spot on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought it was a great one.
Speaker 1:Seven Wonders Duel. Seven Wonders Babel. Seven Wonders Catan I didn't know that was a thing. What Armada Get out of here? There's a thousand of these things, holy smokes thing. What armada get out? There's a thousand of these things, holy smokes. A lot of these are expansions but, like I, there's at least five, six, seven different versions of seven wonders hey to to the listener.
Speaker 2:Shout us out on instagram, tell us what your favorite seven wonders is. I'm kind of an og guy, um, I so I do. I did whip up a couple seven wonder, I think travis I didn't I send you a seven.
Speaker 2:I've been on that one no, yeah, but I'm not on the, I'm not in the travis dog house this. Uh, this week, not this week, not this week I did invite travis to a bga um event so I got seven wonders rolling on bga. So I'm excited. Carlin kicked our butts, though, really, there's these green cards. The green cards are, I think, they're like science cards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you invest in and this is I'm going to talk about this later in our main objective, but you're investing in the end game. Pretty much, it's like you are trying to diversify and collect specific symbols that give you mega points at the end, but if you don't get the right mix, you might fall flat. The right mix, you kind of. You might fall flat. So you're giving up short-term wins for long-term, just home runs. And let me tell you, she hit him out of the park. So, anyways, that's why I was talking some trash in the uh, the bga chat, which I think is public, so I hope people don't just come and snoop in there and look at it. But um, anyways, seven wonders. That's my debrief. It was, it was awesome, I, awesome, I hope, I hope to uh represent well this week um in seven wonders. Uh, we'll see who wins. Well, I'll give. Maybe that'll be. I'll give you a a debrief next week on on how we did in our BGA.
Speaker 1:I'm a little nervous because I know that Carlton plays this nonstop. Oh yeah, she's going to get in there and roll us.
Speaker 2:How I treat Lost Ruins is how she. Her Lost Ruins is seven wonders she's taking a poop. Seven wonders she's doing cardio. Seven wonders, just know she's taking a poop. Seven wonders she's, uh, doing cardio. Seven wonders, you know. So, just always, always trading cards always be trading. That was right. Awesome travis. What do you? What do you? Got a debrief, uh well.
Speaker 1:So you and clay made the recommendation to bring rebirth to our game night last week. Huge hit. Tacos were great. We don't really know this couple all that well. I work with the wife of that couple and they were kind enough to invite us over and so we get over there and we kind of got through a little bit of awkwardness hey how are you Nice to meet you and then sat down, enjoyed a meal tacos Elote was great, guacamole, tons of chips, all very good.
Speaker 1:And then we kind of talked about board games a little bit and they have a decent collection. They have a sizable collection. For most people, I don't know They've probably got 20-h games to include small boxes. And uh, they said, okay, what game did you bring? I said I brought rebirth, kind of explained the premise. We showed up, we ate and I taught a game of rebirth and we played it In probably an hour and a half. It was amazing. Wow, it was. Yeah, it was a really efficient night, yeah, but yeah, rebirth was a hit. You know, they really enjoyed the puzzle of it and I got a little nervous because Janae is her name. So you played at four four, four players.
Speaker 1:We played at four and played on the scotland side we played on scotland and, uh, you know, it flew by and they were like, oh, like, should we try the ireland side real quick? I'm like, uh, unfortunately we are kind of short on time when was at her limit already, so we had to bail, but it was a good record, a good recommendation, it was a hit. So thank you. And then nice, we did a bit of a game swap. We let them borrow rebirth and they let us borrow oni tama. And I had asked, clay, if you had heard of this. I had never heard of this, I'm not sure how, but uh, they let us borrow oni tama, which is a kind of tactical chess like game published in 2014.
Speaker 1:The copy that I have is by arcane wonders, but basically it's a like 5v5 chess match and the movement of your pieces is based on cards. So what you have is you have these master, these master monks, master, craftsmen, master, whatever they are. They're like the main pieces that you need to protect. They are your king, okay, on the chess board, okay, and they start across each other on these like arches space. So in the middle of this five by five grid, they stop, start in the middle space, facing each other and then flanking those master pieces are four monks of the same color, and so what you do is you deal two of these cards that dictate the movements of your pieces to each player, and then you have the fifth one that floats in the middle, and so on your turn, you can move one of your pieces according to the cards that you have on your side of the table, and so it might be diagonal, it might be you're skipping spaces, you might be jumping, you might be going backwards, like. There's a couple of different options for movement depending on which cards you have. So you pick one, you move one piece accordingly, then you take that card that you used and you put it on the other side of the mat, and then you drag the one that's kind of the fifth piece, or the fifth card that's floating between you two. You then draft that into your pool for movement next time.
Speaker 1:And so you can kind of like play this game where you are taking moves so that you can block them from taking certain moves later on, and the object of the game is to either wipe out their masterpiece their king essentially or to take your king piece and move him all the way across to the arch's space on the other side of the board, you put it on the bench, yeah, without them being captured. Oh. And so it's kind of this cool like unique chess style game that you can kind of shake up with these different moves and these different styles of play and you're kind of playing this strategy like well, I know that they can only move these ways this time and I want to prevent them from moving this way next time. So you know, you're kind of playing both your hand and their hand at the same time to try and protect your pieces and outmaneuver your opponent. So super tight.
Speaker 1:We played it twice. Rachel whooped me both times, but she's she always beats me at chess and stuff like that. So yeah, onitama is a pretty cool abstract chess style tactics game. I like it.
Speaker 2:Well, so that middle, the, the eel, what you see on the screen here, that one, so let's, could you use it at like, if it was your turn, could you use that? That shared that middle one right now. No, so that one's kind of only drawn okay.
Speaker 1:So if, like, let's say, I'm the red piece, I have what? Rabbit and cobra, cobra. Yeah, so I pick one of these two to do. Yeah, I move my piece accordingly, then I take the card that I use and I move it to the middle to replace the eel, and then the eel comes to me next time. Oh so then they have the option to take to play from their side, which is Mantis, and what is that? On the other side, ox.
Speaker 1:So then they take either Mantis or Ox and then they move that card out and then they get whatever one I use. Ok, so you're kind of passing these cards back and forth. It's a little bit of like beer and bread, kind of like swapping. You're playing your opponent and trying to block them from making moves. So it's pretty cool. It's a good, quick two-player game and I think I think we might end up with a copy of this at some point, because it's pretty awesome does any fresh blood, like any fresh moves, enter the the game, or is it just those five different moves, the whole?
Speaker 1:time. Honestly, it's just those. It's just those five moves, oh wow. And then you swap those cards out between games.
Speaker 1:But, I think it's better that way. There's probably a variant where you're swapping cards in constantly, but it's really hard to set up shots or set up these different maneuvers if you don't know what's coming next. So that would probably introduce too much randomness. But these games are so fast that you play with just those five and then you scoop them all up. You can set them aside and there's a whole bunch of different cards in this box to keep it fresh. So, plus, I think they have they have a uh, a different expansion too that introduces a whole bunch of different cards and maybe a new way to win yeah, I love the how quick it is.
Speaker 2:I mean even on bgg saying it was only what 15 minutes. And oh yeah, super light weight too, like yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the weight was probably one, something like yeah, 15 to 20 minutes, super easy, um, that's all. You can teach this game to anybody and they would pick it up. It's just like a stylized chess if they understand chess, even if they don't understand chess. You're just moving a piece according to the card and swapping that card with the one in the middle, and that's the whole thing. So easy to navigate, easy to understand and super quick to play dude, I bet you janae is a beast at this too.
Speaker 2:Janae's probably, yeah, and daniel, they're incredibly intelligent people, um. So I bet you who, well, who, won uh, rebirth? I bet you, I don't know rachel, probably. She's pretty, pretty crafty.
Speaker 1:No, no, I won. What Come on.
Speaker 2:You won, yeah, I won Nice.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, janae was making a serious move on these castles. She was really gunning for castles. Yes, I think we ended up tying for castles because I was able to loop in a couple at the very end down in the southern region along the border, so I in a couple at the very end down in the Southern region along the border, so I I got a couple of those Um, and then, honestly, I think I had more of the um, the Abbey cards, like contributing to Abby's, you get the end game cards. I had like probably six, seven of those by the time we were done, so those gave me a boost and I ended up winning Dude.
Speaker 2:I love Rebirth. So my mother-in-law's in town, I think. Like Adri, she seems a little wishy-washy on Rebirth, I think I might be able to get my mother-in-law to play Rebirth with me.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, That'd be an interesting experiment. Like, can anybody like? I'm assuming that she is not a gamer no, Uh-uh, no, no, no. Like can anybody just pick this up and have a good time, regardless of how much game experience they?
Speaker 2:have. I know it's like pick up a tile, lightning bolt or plant yeah, Go Done. Or building, I guess yeah, you should give it a shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. All right, Ready to do mission objective? Let's roll out, let's do it. Today we're talking engine builders. So engine builder is a style of game I'm not going to say a mechanic, because it's not really a mechanism but it is a style of game where you are either gathering resources that you then trade in to accomplish a goal, some sort of end goal, or you are making those trades to become more efficient at gathering resources that then get you closer to a goal. And so I kind of did a little bit of research because I we kind of lump in engine builders into this kind of like generic mechanism.
Speaker 1:Really, it's a style of game where you are exchanging resources for a more efficient process of exchanging resources, and so usually the typical like attributes of an engine builder is you start off really slow and unable to do a whole lot during your turns. Then as you start to accrue slow and unable to do a whole lot during your turns then as you start to accrue resources and start to exchange them, you're becoming more efficient and you can do more and more and more every single turn. I think like the purest example of this is probably like splendor. Splendor is you collect those little chips that represent gems. Then, on your turn, you are exchanging those gems for cards, which represent permanent gems, and so you need less and less chips to purchase more and more cards that earn you more and more points as you go along. You know you can. You can go all the way back to like monopoly.
Speaker 1:Monopoly is an engine builder, where you are exchanging the money that you have for properties that then earn you more money. They get you more properties, and it's all about who has the most amount of money. So what?
Speaker 2:were you going to say?
Speaker 2:I was going to say, like I try and look for engine building in almost every game that I play. I like that you brought up that as not necessarily a mechanism, like I was even thinking again, I hate that I always just blab on about arnak, but like I like to think of building my engine as you got to get more cards in your hand that have more ability. So I'm it's like I like to think of engine building as like investing. I'm investing now by I could do this action, which me something, an instant gratification maybe but instead I'm going to go spend my coins on this card, which I might not even get to see for another round or two, but it's going to give me this ability later, which sets me up for a better position later on in the game. I can do something really cool. Chain reaction is another great ability of an engine builder, where you're investing in an option to unlock a new ability to do another thing. But, travis, you strike me as someone who has worked on a car or two.
Speaker 1:From time to time.
Speaker 2:Is that a true statement? Have you ever built an?
Speaker 1:engine. I have not built one from scratch, no, but I've done plenty of modifications to said engines. So I mean, still, that's building an engine. I have not built one from scratch, no, but I've done plenty of modifications to set engines oh, so I mean still that's building an engine you know you ever.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, put a new air filter on.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's still building an engine right, yeah, you know you're.
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess that's more maintenance, but, um, I don't know, just doing things like that to help your performance of your motor. You know that's great. Well, so my dad, he, he was, uh, he was an f4 mechanic way back in the day. He was in the air force reserves, so he's a big engine builder himself. I've seen many of. I don't know crap about internal combustion engines and but he could tear apart a this motor and all the pistons and the lift rods and the camshaft, like everything's like pulled apart, laid everywhere, and then put it all back together. Wow, like you can invest in these little pieces of this motor as you're putting it back together to give you better performance and like, I don't know, that's a little a little touch of erickson there for you. Yeah, when I think about engine builder, you're like, let's put a higher performance piston in this engine. Um, so I can, you know, get a little bit more bang every time. Yeah, we put some, put some juice in this, in this, uh, cylinder boom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you mentioned arnack and like being able to kind of tailor your deck so you can get more efficient, and that's kind of an interesting take on. Engine building is like the deck builder or the bag builder, where you are thinning out your decks or culling your bag of dice or whatever it is that you're pulling out in order to become more efficient. That's the same style of engine builder, but you might not have to sacrifice resources to. You're pulling out in order to become more efficient. That's the same style of engine builder, but you might not have to sacrifice resources to. You know, cast out different cards from your deck or whatever. Like. One of the examples that I saw when I was kind of doing my research was star realms, which was then later adapted into the star wars deck building game same exact thing.
Speaker 1:Right, you start with this like kind of trash deck that you use as resources and attacks and different things like that to manipulate the game space, to earn resources, to get better cards off of the like realm out in the middle or the galaxy deck or whatever. So then you're drafting those cards into your discard and you might be able to use those to thin your deck out. So you're building this engine slowly, but you have to use those cards as resources to then do that. So, yeah, same exact concept, but it's just not. They added that kind of twist that it's the deck that you're looking at as your engine or your bag or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:So well, clay, if when clay's are listening to this, he we played some awesome. It was like legit, just pure engine building, and it was like steampunk themed and you like literally are like you start this like process. I think it's like a factory of some kind, okay, and like it literally is like you put something in here and it like doubles and then like it literally is like you put something in here and it like doubles and then like it changes here and you can like essentially grow your resources as you go through your factory. Yeah, he's going to listen to this and be like you dummy. That was like the.
Speaker 2:When I think of like off the top of my head, one of the like purest form of an engine builder, yeah, and you would get like victory points for being able to lay this part of your factory down or like, uh, incorporate it into your process or whatever. Um, he's gonna have to come off uh, next week and and beat me up about it. I just like the and how fitting today to engineers talking about engine builders the efficiency of. How do I squeeze as much bang for my buck out of this move or resource or whatever it fits well into my thought process, my daily job essentially like oh yeah, I love, I love me some engine building for sure, because what you're really doing is you're calculating rates right, or you're calculating rates.
Speaker 1:You're calculating risks. You're trying to maximize your turn with minimizing your exposed risk. You are making these trade-offs from a moment to moment in the game in order to maximize your effects at the end. So awesome, so I love it. You love a good engine builder. I love a good engine builder. Talk to me about some of your favorite engine builder games.
Speaker 2:So you, you had mentioned Splendor already. Yep, we have been playing something gives me Splendor, vibes that Gizmos game.
Speaker 1:Yes, Bill Walker Harding.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we love Gizmos. Dude, I want still I think I said it a couple of weeks ago I still want to play this damn game in person, because I just want to stick my grubby little hand in the top of that pot to grab me a little marble. I think it's so cool. You can invest in this card that'll double your blues. You get a blue marble, but now you invested in buying this widget and now all a blue marble. But now you invested in buying this widget and now all your blue marble.
Speaker 2:Well, you can do it once for every you know tile you have, like, yeah, now I can essentially turn one of my blue marbles into two blue marbles, which then lets me buy another thing, which then, you know, maybe it increases my capacity to hold more marbles, or maybe now, every time I pick up a yellow marble, now it lets me draw two from the top, or every time it, like, gizmos is probably one of the coolest in just built engine builders that you guys have only, like in the last couple of months, introduced me to. Yeah, I haven't played in person and I would really, I would really like to have you played that one in person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, clay and I played that like back to back to back at dice tower West when we went, because we just like could not get enough of that. It's like. It's like if you took splendor and you just like it's like splendor on steroids, right, it took the decision process that you're making in splendor and they just like amped it up to 11, because not only can you like draft little marbles, which feels good, but you can start reserving early and file those away. And it's not like filing burns your turn, because if you build up your engine, enough filing can get you three, four or five different effects, and so you're like constantly doing stuff more and more and more each turn and you get to a point where you're like I have too much to do. Like then you really need to narrow down exactly what you want to accomplish on that turn. It's so clean, it's perfect.
Speaker 2:And paul solomon paul solomon gushed about that game too when he came on paul and I was thinking I was honestly, when I was doing my prep for this, I was thinking about paul like he loves a good engine builder, like I know any of these guys that are making these uh like producing games, that it's always in the back of their mind like yeah, and uh, just thinking back to our conversation with him makes me all sorts of giddy.
Speaker 2:But um, one, going back to gizmos though there is, like it is so cool. I was thinking one of these, one of those, one of the coolest mechanisms, I think in that game is being able to look into, like I think what I think I think it's got a name like um research. You can like go into the undisplayed piles because, like, usually there's only like five, like two or three or four visible that you can choose from for to build your engine, these tiles that you can choose from. But you can research and grab from the unexposed tiles, you can look at them. You're like, hmm, which one do I want to keep? And then I think you have to file it, or do you have to play it right away, or maybe you can do either one, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it depends on the card that you've built or the tile that you've built. But yeah, researching is like a cool, unique advantage that doesn't exist in many engine builders like that, where you just get a sneak peek or you can go specifically looking for something that you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, and then you just put them back and take the one you want. Yep, well, my dumb ass, I bought a tile one time that I gave up my ability to investigate or research. I didn't even think that was possible, but I did. Uh, it got me like seven victory points, but like I could no longer investigate for the rest of the game. I was like what? And it kept telling me on bga, it's like no, you, uh, that's, that ability is on, has been locked. Yeah, I'm like oh man, I didn't realize what I did. I shut down my engine. Yeah, so like, maybe that's another thing. Like, but it's a trade-off. Everything in in the engine builder is a trade-off. Like, what are you giving up to get later?
Speaker 1:and, um, so it's, it's all about, you know optimization, so maybe that's why engine builders are so popular and why they resonate so clearly with everybody, because engine builders are like a microcosm of life. You're making choices on how to get ahead in life on a day-to-day basis, where you invest your time, where you invest your time, where you invest your energy. Do I go out and I practice tuba when I have no aspirations of being a tuba player, or do I sit down and study and be a better student? Right, like you have decisions. Did you play tuba? I did not play tuba, I played the trombone, but that was like two or two years I wanted to play trombone when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:I so cool kids. Dude, I love ska music myself. Oh yeah when I get to hear the bone every now and then, oh yeah. Um when I was in elementary school and in middle school I played percussion, Okay, and then I got into ska music and I was like you know what?
Speaker 2:Maybe let me try, what should I try? And I was like you know what, maybe let me try, what should I try? And I was like the trumpet sounds like maybe a little too hard. Let me try tuba. I tried tuba for one year, eighth grade. Well, it turns out that you have to know how to read music. I didn't know how to read music, so I used to just write down which finger to press.
Speaker 1:I did the same thing. I did the same thing. I did the same thing.
Speaker 2:This trombone has positions and I was like one, two, like there's, that's a variable, there's not a button there like that's yeah tough you just gotta kind of like get close enough, right?
Speaker 1:so it was like one to six was like all the way extended. Don't quote me on that, but I think it's like six is fully extended and you just kind of break it up into that amount of distance and then you just have to get close enough. I mean, you're an elementary school band, so it's not like dude, it's not the philharmonic.
Speaker 2:I didn't know you played the trombone.
Speaker 1:I saw a post the other day that said ska music is what plays in a junior high school kid's head when he gets an extra mozzarella stick at the pizza place. Yeah, that checks.
Speaker 2:The group chat is going to be full of ska memes and skaka music. Perfect, yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, so lately you've been loving Terraforming Mars as your engine builder.
Speaker 2:I wrote that down. How did I not bring that up?
Speaker 1:So Terraforming Mars, great. You're exchanging heat and metal and all sorts of alloys and water and you're exchanging all of these different resources in order to develop this system, both collaborative, collaboratively and competitively. Right to get ahead, I have a game that I would like to play with you when I get to alabama. Yes, have you heard of underwater cities? I no, I have not. Okay, underwater Cities was touted as like the terraforming Mars killer. Really, because you are building out an underwater city on this giant grid, so you're exchanging resources to build the domes that people will live in and the little like tunnel ways between them, and to do research and to feed your people and to give them air and oxygen and plants. And, yeah, I'm, that might be a game that I ship you Underwater Cities by Delicious Games. Okay, and oxygen and plants. And, yeah, I'm, that might be a game that I ship you, uh, underwater cities by delicious games, okay, and they also have an expansion that is called new discoveries, and both games are rated.
Speaker 1:Underwater Cities is 8.0. Underwater cities New discoveries 8.5 on BGA the little bit heavier. It takes a little bit of time, it's like 30 to 45 minutes per player 8.0. Underwater City's new discovery is 8.5 on VGA. It's a little bit heavier, it takes a little bit of time. It's like 30 to 45 minutes per player. But this game is touted as the terraforming Mars killer, so maybe I'll ship that to you and we can get a game of that in while I'm there for big boy game night.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm locked in. Yeah, okay, I'm locked in. Yeah, because, yeah, I can't believe I. When you asked me my favorite um engine builder, I skipped over terraforming, like when I think of original gangster og um engine builder, I sort of thought maybe even katan, maybe yeah, that is an engine builder you know, sitting up your, your cities and get the right resources in the right locations and making decisions about where do I want to get more resources and set up my cities and settlements and cities.
Speaker 2:But then when I thought about, like, what is the like right now? What do I think is the ultimate engine builder Holy smokes, terraforming Mars when you get those little blue cards out there and they have all those extra effects, I get so excited about all the extra effects. I get excited about putting out the blue cards for all the extra moves and actions you can do and then like just building up all your extra resources that you can get every time the production and then like maybe reducing production to go up in production in a different area. So underwater cities I'm looking at right now it I'm excited so yeah, also the.
Speaker 1:The hotness here in ogn has been agricola. Agricola is getting a relaunch. That's a great engine builder, where you're gathering your sheeps and your goats and your cows and your families and your workers and your wood and you're exchanging all of those every single turn and the decisions that you make it more and more complex Every single turn. Agricola is a great engine builder and feast for Odin Feast for Odin Feast for Odin a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting those extra islands and sheds and covering up or surrounding those items so that you can get extra resources between rounds. Engine builder.
Speaker 1:Boom Engine builder. I'm trying to look at a list of, like the top ones and also new hotness, the span games, wingspan, fin span yeah, okay, we gushed about fin span a couple weeks ago. You know you're putting birds down that then play off of each other, so that's kind of an interesting like distinction too is is tableau building versus versus engine building Because, like it says, wingspan, you're playing those cards down, the cards play off of one another to get you more resources later on. It also says, like Everdell is an engine builder, because you're building out your city and the cards play off of one another. It's kind of the same thing, right, like worker placement mixed with resource management, mixed with tableau building. That's why I say it's not a specific mechanism. It's like a style of game where you just get more and more and more and more and more complex turn orders.
Speaker 2:So I mean, maybe that's something as a board gamer, if you want to up your gaming, like you focus more on your engine building abilities or you take more risks and have a longer term, or just have an open mind when you play. I don't know, I'm going to dog on Clay because sometimes he just doesn't think about building his engine, he just wants to do something cool and I'm over here trying to. You know, like the beautiful mind thing, all the numbers are falling around and trying to do way too much and maybe I get lost in the sauce, but I don't know. I love you, clay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man. There's so many great Engine Builder games out there and we love them all. Are we ready to go over the fence? You got any more on Engine Builder? No, I think I'm good. Okay, crushed it. I'm excited to hear about your over the fence. So tell me what is so exciting.
Speaker 2:So to hear about your over the fence. So tell me what I had, what is so exciting? So, uh, yesterday I finished my, my spring break. I I had an awesome time. Colorado springs um, went to dc, got to see the beautiful, uh, cherry blossoms everything is beautiful up there right now. Well, I was in BWI and my doctor called me on a Saturday and I'm like what the heck's going on? I don't know how to tell you this, but there might be a third hose. I'm still very potent, okay, I don't know what happened. He said this is the first time it's ever happened to him.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:It was a missed spot. It's a botched vasectomy. Wow, and he thinks they're. He called it an auxiliary cord. There might be a third hose. Okay, a phantom hose A phantom hose. So I got to go to a specialist.
Speaker 1:Tay, I hope you're listening um wow. So while you're in there, go ahead and check for extra hoses. I feel like that would be step one, like let's gather all the hoses together and then tie them all off in a knot oh my god.
Speaker 2:So, uh, yeah, it's um wild times, but uh, I'm gonna have to go to a specialist. Um, the story continues, guys.
Speaker 1:Wow, I don't know what to tell you at this point they'll just put like a miniaturized little garden hose reel in there and they'll just reel you up for safekeeping.
Speaker 2:You got so many hoses floating around, geez that could be the new um, I don't know, operation game night, you know? Alternate logo maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like it. Oh, garden hose I like a leaky hose is. I just got like a little trail of water coming off. Oh my god, I was blown away.
Speaker 2:I like I was getting a phone call from the base and I'm like, oh man, something must be wrong. I'm like it's a Saturday, what is happening? It's my doctor which shout out to my doctor working on a Saturday, he must be dedicated or really behind, and the government, the military, health care system really backlogged. So bless those health care workers. Thank you for doing busting your ass, but yikes, so anyway.
Speaker 1:Well, when you go back in and they go to fix this thing, just tell them to treat it like a tourniquet, like high and tight, clamp it off. We're doing T-triple-C here, we are under fire. Clamp it high and tight and deal with it later.
Speaker 2:You just want to remove the you know the key parts. You don't want to just, you don't want to kill everything off.
Speaker 1:There's still important bits down there, okay so you don't know how many hoses that maybe it's branching off into these separate hoses. You gotta clamp it high and tight and I don't know if any of our listeners are, uh, vasectomyologists.
Speaker 2:I think it's just a urologist, I don't know um, just hit me up, let me know um. Well, anyways, travis, do you have any garden? What was your over the fence, hopefully I was gonna say.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say that your doctor missed an important window because if he would have given you this news like a month ago, you could have gotten clamped before March Madness. Did you know that, like, the number of vasectomies goes way up before March Madness? Really yeah, because, like doctor's orders, you're supposed to sit on a couch and just do nothing. Oh, back of peas, right, and so people do it right before march madness, so that they can get all the games in oh doctor's orders.
Speaker 2:Sorry babe, I gotta watch march madness have you been?
Speaker 1:watching march madness well, it's a little hard because all the games are on at two in the morning or whatever, but yeah, been kind of keeping up with it. We watch the highlights every, every morning. So, uh, my brackets are doing really well. I am like 90 some percent. I'm in second place in one of my like bracket pools and I think I'm in third place in my other. So this is like nice, the best I've ever done across the board for march madness and what's?
Speaker 2:I feel like I have forced you into that over fence. What's your? What's your real over the fence?
Speaker 1:oh, we got family visiting and we're packing up our house and, yeah, nothing exciting. March madness is here and we're excited about that. Wyatt hendrickson is a national champion. We're excited about that huge um. Yeah, life is good.
Speaker 2:Nothing else to report good, awesome, I mean I I'm just still blown away that I have amazing, uh, co-hosts. I guess I'm not really a co-host. What do you? Yeah, you are, you're a co-host. I've never hosted one of these. Um, well should we start over.
Speaker 1:Let's go back and record from the beginning. Let's just take it from the top all right, let's just restart.
Speaker 2:Can you hit the button again? I got one guy who's a hall of famer, one guy who's a gold medalist you gold I mean not really I'm gonna start addressing you guys as the hall of famer and the gold medalists and I got the five milli. Okay, we, we got the five milli gold chain, gold medal hall of famer, I mean the golden boys, the stay golden. Oh, my stay golden. Golden boys. The golden hose, yep Can't be broke.
Speaker 1:I am getting more and more excited for big boy game night when we get out there. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to ship you a whole bunch of games and you're going to get a massive box that's just like ready for Jared to play games. Done Signed sealed, delivered.
Speaker 2:I cannot wait. Honestly, and like I told you, june is looking like prime game time. Oh yeah, just every time that you come over to play a game, you will be required to pack one box. Oh perfect.
Speaker 1:Bet, bet, give me a big comforter to shove into a box and I'll tape it shut. Perfect, done. Yeah, awesome, all right. Well, did we do it? I?
Speaker 2:think we did it.
Speaker 1:Built that engine. Episode 33 in the books for Operation Game Night. I have been Travis, he has been Jared or Jerry the Job Guy and we are out Out. Thank you.
