Operation: Game Night
Travis Smith, Jared Erickson, and Clay Gable get together to discuss the latest and greatest in board games in this weekly podcast. What's hot, what's hitting the table, featured discussions about board games and the board gaming culture, and the primary mission objective- to play more board games!
Operation: Game Night
OGN Ep 28: Batman, Passion Projects, and AI Board Game Pitches
Clay is in the Hall of Fame! Jared and Travis do our best without him by exploring of how AI can innovate board game design. We dive into the interplay of personal stories and gaming mechanics that make for a captivating episode.
• Celebrating Clay’s accomplishments and our pride in him
• Sharing highlights from our recent gaming sessions
• Discussing how AI could lead to exciting board game expansions
• Pitching two AI-generated expansions for Western Legends
• Encouraging reflection on the role of AI in creative endeavors
Thank you for tuning in! Don’t forget to send Clay your congratulations on his well-earned award!
As always, come interact with us online, let us know if you have any feedback, and leave us a review/comment anywhere you get your favorite podcasts!
https://www.instagram.com/operation_game_night_podcast/
Travis, welcome to the Operation Game Night podcast, episode 28, the only podcast to successfully pass the Turing Test, joining me. As always, he dreams of electric sheep. He just finished re-baselining and he's ready to go back on patrol. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Sorry, Travis, I interrupted your intro. I got too excited to see your face there. And jump the gun, Travis.
Speaker 1:I interrupted your intro. I got too excited to see your face there and jump the gun. It's nice to have this intimate one-on-one because we shed the dead weight Clay's out for now. Just this week, if you're missing Clay, he's receiving a major award from his high school.
Speaker 2:I think it's like his district. It's not just like he's Hall of Fame for Dallastown High School school homeboy. I don't think you guys went over it. I left early last week and I was gonna bust his chops some more. I'm pretty proud of this guy. I know he's gonna listen to this episode. I just want him to be, uh, fully aware that his co-hosts on operation game Night are very proud of him. He is an amazing wrestler. He's a great leader. That's why he's getting this distinction and award and he deserves every second of his fame. I don't know, travis, did you see any of the videos of him receiving his award? I did see the clips.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he looked a little awkward standing out there on the mat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's not one to receive awards. He's like Ricky Bobby he didn't know what to do with his hands. But Homeboy is extremely humble, but he's well-deserving of that award. So I mean, if you haven't said congrats to Clay, please jump onto his Instagram. Send him something in the operation game night. Uh, instagram channel. But um, he's a stud.
Speaker 1:We miss him. If you're watching this on YouTube, go in the comments and say Clay, we're proud of you because yeah, Clay, he's all the love. All the love. Yeah, he's not one to step into the spotlight and he'll probably go into this video and edit all of this out. Don't do that, clay you're watching this?
Speaker 1:don't do that, uh, but yeah, we're super proud of him. He's very deserving of this recognition. So way to go, clay. Yes, yeah, we do have a great show for you today. We are going to debrief our weeks. Then we are going to have ai give us some board game pitches. So, um, I know ai is a bit of a. So I know AI is a bit of a contentious subject when you talk about board games both art, writing, design but in lack of another host to do a board game pitch off, we're going to have AI pitch us some board games and we'll talk about what we think about that and then we will go over the fence and talk about what we've been doing outside of board gaming.
Speaker 2:So, jared, about what we've been doing outside of board gaming. So, jared, travis, before we get going, what do you think about asking ai to build us like a little uh thumbnail for today's um battle off? I guess? Yes, we should do that and maybe just just like a one and done like don't even, you don't even get to edit anything.
Speaker 1:Like you, just get what you get when you put it, we each have like seven fingers and we're like yeah, posing with a board game or something that's.
Speaker 2:That's actually one of my go-to about me's is I was born with six fingers. I don't know if you knew that did you know, no, I did not. Okay, just look at the light. Also, if you're on youtube, you're gonna get a little bonus here. Right at the end of my pinkies, those were where my six fingers were cut off.
Speaker 1:Whoa polydactyl is what they call it um, yep, I'm a weirdo, wow that is a fun fact.
Speaker 2:That's crazy so ai might, might, maybe. Ai already knows like it's on another level.
Speaker 1:You know giving me extra fingers so it's jumping ahead into the future with its quantum state and telling us what humans will look like when we sprout the sixth finger. Oh my, god don't get started okay, all right, I'm ready to tell you about my weekend board gaming let's do it. What'd you, what'd you get done this week?
Speaker 2:okay, so picture this. It was last night. It's a little chilly here in alabama. I venture over to my good friend Randy Pence's house. There's hot pot on the table. I don't know if have you had hot pot before.
Speaker 1:I have had hot pot before. I don't know if it, I don't know why, I just said it like that Hot pot before.
Speaker 2:I primed you with talking about Alabama. I thought maybe you're going Ricky Bobby on me or something. But I primed you with talking about Alabama. I thought maybe you're going Ricky Bobby on me or something, but I don't know if that's a technical name for it, but it's very Asian inspired. Like you got boiling pots of broth. So our friend Will, he brought over these beautiful big things that he put on the table that are electric heaters and you have broth just boiling. Um, just imagine two big pots, but the pots are cut in half. Yeah, each pot has two chambers for broth of different flavors. We had a mushroom, we had a bone broth, we had a mild and then a spicy hot pot.
Speaker 2:Nice, like four pounds of beef, um, which actually. This is interesting that it is on the ai day. My buddy asked ai how much meat to get, and it bought on four pounds of meat for a rather large american like myself, plus seven of his normal sized friends. Wow, four, four pounds was perfect. Chat, gbt, spit it out. Hey, it can help you plan your parties and maybe create new board games and expansions. I don't know. Yeah, but here's the problem, though, travis, we ate so much food we couldn't get in any board games. Oh, so I did have in my bag. I had Undaunted 2200. So that doesn't roll off the tongue as well.
Speaker 1:No, it does not.
Speaker 2:But I did also have Wavelength in there. Wavelength, I would love to get that for me. I'm the party guy. It's an awesome one team versus another team. You're trying to get the teams to guess where this dial is at. Think of like zero to 100, and it's a hidden, I don't know selector.
Speaker 1:A hidden quantity that you're selecting on that scale?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah so you're trying to give your team, uh, one clue that will key them in on where you're at, zero to a hundred. But each time you do it you have like a theme. Um, it could be like cold to hot and you you could say McDonald's coffee and that's way hot, right, then they get sued for something like that, so that's maybe like 99. What's another good example?
Speaker 1:I think Clay's example, was like tap water or something, and I don't know what the topic was, but that was his clue. I distinctly remember him saying tap water.
Speaker 2:So it was probably like middle of the road or something yeah, it was probably like sterile to like gross or, like you know, infested, and he put tap water and you're like, well, where are you getting your tap water from? Because when you're in the rocky mountains, tap water beautiful down Down here in Alabama, suspect.
Speaker 1:Pennsylvania even more suspect.
Speaker 2:But anyways, sorry I had to failed getting something to the table.
Speaker 1:Operation game night failed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we should have spent more time in the planning phase of this operation, that's okay, all good. Hey, I had some good food, but hopefully, travis, can you redeem us, can you? Well, your week I.
Speaker 1:I don't have all that much debrief. I spent some time playing games by myself and I don't know if you know this, but we celebrated an important holiday, uh, this past week really not just valentine, I guess, that was a little over a week ago Bruce Wayne's birthday. Bruce Wayne, really Playboy, billionaire, philanthropist.
Speaker 2:From Gotham City.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was born on 19 February. I don't know if you know this.
Speaker 2:No, I had no idea. Are you about to pull it up? I'm about to pull it up. This is just another reason why we need our Clayton back. We need Clay on the backstage to help us seamlessly show our oh beautiful Batman.
Speaker 1:Batman the animated series is one of my favorite TV shows of all time and they have an episode called Shadow of the Bat. This is a game published in 2021 by idw games and this game is batman the animated series, shadow of the bat, and it's part of the adventures universal game system. Okay, what that means is you can take any of these adventures universal game system games, components, characters and mix them all up with one another. Really, uh, I have a whole bunch of expansions to this one, in particular, the the animated series, batman one, uh, but, uh, they also have a ninja turtles one that has tons of expansions if you're in a ninja turtles, so you can have, like, bat fighting the Ninja Turtles or Joker fighting Master Shredder.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is like a dice combat, grid movement, campaign, mission type game where you can mix and match all these different characters and basically create your own adventure. Adventure and typically this is they have a bunch of different modes that you can play, but you basically pick the heroes that you want to play as you pick the villains that you're going against. It's got little minis yeah, it's got nice little like rings around the characters that you're playing as um, but basically you can play one versus four, like you'd have four bad guys versus one super powerful batman. You can have, you know, two villains versus two villains you could have. They have a cooperative mode, they have a solo mode. They've got all these different modes and it's like basically just your playground to jump in and try out these missions, make your own missions, and it's. It's really cool. I mean, it's a I can.
Speaker 1:I have talked before about, uh, the gotham city chronicles batman game, which is very complex and hard to learn. This has a heavy weight or a medium heavy, it's like a 3.5, but it's much simpler to understand. All the characters have their own little play mats that explain exactly what they do. You've got a bunch of dice that you roll. That then are your action points that you're spending to move and to fight these bad guys. So here you've got, you know, catwoman and batman versus looks like mr freeze and some thugs, so super thematic. All the characters play different. They all have different abilities and unique dice. Yeah, it's really cool. You're basically just trying to stop the bad guys or to, you know, pick up certain items before the bad guys do, or, you know, there's different scenarios you can play through, so I fiddled around with this a little bit. I would love to play this more with a group that knows how to play this. Um, yeah, it's a pretty cool one and it was a good way to celebrate bruce wayne's birthday.
Speaker 1:So that is batman, the animated series shadow of the bat.
Speaker 2:So is this like dc's response to marvel united or?
Speaker 1:no, I am honestly not sure where this spawned from um, but this adventure unlimited game series or whatever, augs, I just know, I just know it's Oggs. What is it? Adventures Universal Game System? They have IDW, created this system where you can mix and match all these characters. So I have a couple of the Ninja Turtle ones, because I love the Ninja Turtles as well and I have never mixed and matched them, but they play basically the same. They just have kind of thematic differences between them. Here's a good character card for batman. So he's got like different abilities like combat and movement. He's a, he's a detective, so he's got investigative skills. He's got, you know, pretty big health bar.
Speaker 1:Uh, because he's you know he's the hero and then he, and then he's got all these dice that have these different symbols on them that allow you to do different things. Oh nice. So, yeah, it's kind of unique, it's kind of thematic and cool, so it's a good way to celebrate Bruce Wayne's birthday. Happy birthday, bruce Wayne.
Speaker 2:Happy birthday, Bruce man. My favorite character is probably Alfred. Yes, Is Alfred in this.
Speaker 1:He is in this yes, really yeah, and he's got his own unique abilities and stuff.
Speaker 2:uh, pretty cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, then I have two more games that I want to shout out. I have not played either of these yet, but I got sent them for review, so I'm gonna bust these out sometime and play them. Uh, the first one it's called bad trevor, and bad trevor is basically like a bluffing, trick-taking game where you are passing these cards around that are either villains, civilians or heroes, and what you're doing is you are passing these cards around face down, as like attacks on the other person, and the goal is to empty your hand as fast as possible. So you're passing these cards around and you're like attacking each other face down and the only cards that you cannot discard ever, like, basically, I'm passing three cards to my right. Okay, that person draws one face down and adds it to their hand that then they can add to their next hand that they're playing the person to their right, I think, around and around you go. It plays three to five, I believe, and the only, and so if I have a set of civilians that are matching, I can take that set and play them face down and like discard them as points to thin the herd out a little bit. Okay, okay, the only cards you cannot discard are.
Speaker 1:Was it kamikaze kevin? I saw that. Yeah, I don't know why it's doing that. Kamikaze kevin right here. Uh, and bad trevor. And so kamikaze kevin, when you get him on the initial draw, you put him face up in the middle and then, as these cards go around, bad Trevor is somewhere floating around in these cards that are being passed around and if you ever believe that you're being handed a set of cards that contains bad Trevor, you pick up kamikaze Kevin off the table and you say, like not today, bad Trevor, and you get to slam it down. And if you're right and if you like guess correctly and bad trevor's in there, you basically like take all the cards you have left in your hand, you pass them to another player and then you like clean your hands and you basically win, you get to step away. So it's kind of this cool like bluffing game and set collection where you're passing these things around. It's very like anime superhero themed.
Speaker 1:I think this is just kind of a passion project for this guy that made this. Let me I want to make sure I shout him out mark hurdle and artist is steve penfold um, published by fist bump games limited. These two guys that just decided to make this project so you can find him online at um bad tre on Instagram. So give this a shout out, give them a hit them up on Instagram If you're interested in this. They also have a website bad Trevorcom.
Speaker 2:So if you have bad Trevor in your hand and you pass it to the next person, you know that Trevor's coming your way. Is that a true statement?
Speaker 1:or so you're trying to like get. You're trying to end the game without bad trevor in your hand, and bad trevor cannot be discarded with civilians and stuff. So as he goes around, you know he's being passed because nobody wants to hold on to him for that long.
Speaker 1:You know that he's moving around but you don't know for sure when he's gonna come your way correct, and if you pick him up and he's in your hand, you have to try and get rid of him before somebody runs out of cards. So you're trying to like pass him along like a hot potato, but you're playing these face down so you might draft one of these cards. That is bad, trevor, and you end up with him in your hand. So, yeah, it's a pretty like cool bluffing type system. I'm looking forward to getting it played. That's just like my initial, that's like the basic rules, and I will definitely give this a more in-depth review once I get it played.
Speaker 2:So that is bad in talking to mark here who's trevor and why and what did he do to hurt you? You know, I'm sure uh like trevor, bad trevor. He's probably like a, just a meanie, maybe someone at work, I don't know, because this isn't like a cartoon, like from cartoon network or something.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so I think they like invented these characters and I think this is bad trevor that we're looking at right now on the on the cover of the box. That's bad trevor, I think. So, yeah, it's kind of cool. Then the last thing that I wanted to shout out yeah, pun intended is I got sent a copy of a print and play game. That's a passion project by somebody that loves the last of us. Are you familiar with the last of us?
Speaker 2:which one is that one is that that's a movie. Uh, it's a.
Speaker 1:It's a show on hbo max, or max now, uh, but they also have two video games and that's where all this started. It's a game by naughty dog and sony, and they created this world where there's like a fungus that is expanding and mutating so that it can take over humans and, like, attach their brains and basically turn them into zombies. And, uh, the show is phenomenal. The games are both great and there are a couple of officially licensed last of us board games out there. This is like a passion project. This guy is like giving this game away for free, I believe, and he is it on bg um bgg uh, it's not on bg, this is just like this guy's passion project.
Speaker 1:So, uh, if you go to instagram and you look up t l o u underscore board game the last of us board game uh, he's got a link tree in there where you can go and you can hit him up and find these files. But he basically made this like bespoke last of us game by himself. That is a print and play that he's like giving away for free, yeah, and so he's got expansions for it. He's got all these like unique systems. I haven't dug into this. He like sent me this huge ream of printer printer paper that he like printed this game out for me, but, like he did all the art himself like super cool, like great thematic, on-brand art. You know, the the last of us tends to be a pretty heavy subject, like humanity is failing and this like zombie horde is taking over the world, um, but he's got this kind of like cute comic book style art that like goes along with the theme. Three and three dimensional too, yeah, so well, he uh you basically cut it out. So, yeah, oh, you got. You have a prop? Yes, I'm well, I'm going to show you at least the printouts. So he sent me like this freaking ream of paper, yeah, and each of these has like things to cut out. Um, he's got like unique player reference sheets that are amazing. Um, he's got like tuck boxes. This is for one of the expansion called masks on um. So, yeah, you like cut it out and he like has tuck boxes made for all these things and it's like grid movement resource management. He's got like all the all the zombies from the game and from the show in there. So it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:This guy put a lot of work into this thing. Um, his name is walt carlson and this is not like a licensed thing by naughty dog or anything. It says right there characters and icons copyright of naughty dog. But you gotta appreciate the passion. This guy like went out of his way to design a board game for the last of us. There are a couple of last of us board games out there, but that didn't fit the need for this guy and he wanted to make this by himself. So, really cool. Check him out on instagram. T-l-o-u underscore board game on Instagram. Thank you, walt, for sending this to me. I can't wait to get it played.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I do remember. It sounds familiar. Was it one of your over-the-fences, the Last of Us?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's going to be my over-the-fence this week, because I've been diving back in hard. Nice, awesome, are we ready? We've done a couple of board game pitches before to you, jared.
Speaker 1:And this time you're an AI wizard, You're, like always, talking about AI. You're using it for everything. You're using it to plan how much meat you need for your game nights. So we figured, instead of pitching each other games, we're going to have AI design some expansions for some of our favorite games and we're going to talk about what we think of them them, if they fit in with the current game, and expansions, what we might change about them, the theme of them, that type of stuff. So are you ready?
Speaker 2:oh, I'm, I'm ready if you're ready. I, I think I have. Uh, I took a little unique perspective to it. I don't know if you would like me to pitch you first, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2:Let's do it. My methodology was I wanted to really test and give AI just a one-shot look, which is not how you really should use AI. I'm learning that AI is transforming how we handle school and processing information, trying to get as much information and details into our little noggins, so sometimes prompting it is a lot better. Like, hey, like, do something like this, now, change this, now work on this, and you can get some awesome products out of AI. There's tons of different tools out there, a lot of them free. I actually don't pay for any um paid versions. I just, you know, once I hit the limit, you know usually like five to ten prompts and it's like okay, now you have to use a sad version, and then also a lot of it was in the news big time last couple weeks because Deep Seek came in and kind of shook everybody. So I think the next year or so we're going to see big movement on AI and I think a lot of people are just hearing it and maybe downloading an app that they've heard of and just playing with it, and so we're going to see a lot more of this, and so what I had done is just one. I did one question to chat GPT using their reasoning module. So now they have a bunch of like you can kind of essentially prompt the AI, give it like prime it a little bit, say, hey, I want you to be using kind of this like thought process or idea in your head. That's cool. And so I use the reasoning module for chat gpt and then gemini, which is a google product. Yeah, I use gemini 2.0 flash and this is what I said to it.
Speaker 2:I'm working on a podcast with my friends at operation game night. We want to see what kind of expansions you can come up with for Western Legends. So Travis here, big fan of Western Legends, love it. There's already a few out there. We want something new and interesting and exciting. Give us the basics of the base game and how the proposed expansion changes or adds to those rules. Give it a name and a suggested price. So I wanted to make sure that it told me okay, what are the basics of western legends, so I can kind of test to make sure that the ai knows what game we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Okay, and both gemini and chat gbt know exactly what we're talking about and they know all the expansions. They are very intelligent and so they gave me two great options, so I was going to start with the ChatGBT version. And so we on Operation Game Night love Western Legends like dressing up and shooting our whiskey. This one is the High Noon expansion. So at High Noon, at a certain point throughout the gameplay, you have a kind of side mini game that has its own cards that triggers unpredictable challenges. Okay, so I think already in Western Legends there's kind of an ongoing kind of goal where individual players, they can put their little presence tokens on I don't remember what that's called specifically Presence tokens, not presence tokens. Uh, not presence token. Like if you, if you do this action, you get to put your little chit on to the card and then oh yeah, hard load story like the story yeah which I love about western legends because it like helps with the getting it like getting immersed into the theme and the gameplay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, maybe it's like get a golden nugget this turn and so if you do it influences how you play and then, if you do that, then you get to flip it over and you get some kind of benefit or bonus. So this is something very similar, but in the High Noons expansion we have factions and syndicates that you can join. So now it's kind of co-op. Now you can make bonds and maybe backstabbing. I don't know At High Noon what's happening at High Noon in the west? You know everyone goes inside. There's about to be a shootout downtown, you know. So now you're like I don't know. I've been working with travis on these goals, trying to rustle these cattle, um, because we're in a faction together. But is he gonna backstab me at high?
Speaker 2:noon or are you gonna, you know, band together, band together. Now you're going to have a band of the outlaws doing something. So ChatGPT didn't specifically give me okay, here are the different factions. That would be kind of cool to see, like, okay, we'll flesh that out a little bit more and tell me what are the benefits of being part of this faction or that faction. So I think that's an interesting addition, because I'm not super familiar with the other expansions. Is that anywhere in any of the Western Legends gameplay that you know?
Speaker 1:No, I think the expansions largely rely on systems that already exist. So, instead of buying supplies from the supply store or whatever you're buying it from, like a roaming cart or you can rob the roaming cart.
Speaker 1:And then there's like a train that goes around the map and you can like rob the train and so it's like taking that step or that action or that mechanic. That's already in the base game and it takes it like that little bit further. And plus there's like new characters and new uh equipment and you that you can equip to your character and stuff like that. But I think there's no like really distinct, unique mechanic in any of those uh, in any of those expansions I don't know, I like the idea of like hidden objectives and teaming up with people.
Speaker 2:I guess, kind of in the base game, if you are one of the good guys, like you can kind of team up because you're trying to catch all the baddies and the other players in the room. If they're on the outlaw track like you're like okay, we're going to corner them over here and we're going to schwag them.
Speaker 1:Like you're like okay, we're going to corner them over here and we're going to schwack them. It kind of reminds me of like Nemesis, like the semi-cooperative. Like you're going along and you're like oh, I don't know why this room is on fire. Well, it's because you lit it on fire, because that's your objective, or whatever. Like you shoot somebody out the airlock or you know whatever it is. You have that like that corporate goal and that personal goal that you keep secret, and then you like don't know which one people are aiming for.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's awesome. I love that. I I do like that a lot. And it did offer two other suggestions for this high noon expansion. Okay, a, a skill track that you can. Maybe it's an additional it didn't go specifically how it's, you know, actually actioned, but like a skill track that you can, maybe another. I would imagine it like another building in the city where you can go to, to, you know, get better at it. It suggested leadership, like leadership, trick shots and bluffing. You can get better at these skills, which maybe help you with your syndicate or if you're playing cards or trick shots, like in the middle of a battle where you're dealing another person that's so, dude, it's like, I love it.
Speaker 2:I very, very thrilled with what chat gbt uh spat out.
Speaker 2:And then the last thing as part of this expansion a quick draw mechanism where, at any point, when you go to someone and you're going to battle them, you you usually like you take a time, you look at your cards okay, I'm going to play this one yeah, before you actually engage, there's a quick draw function.
Speaker 2:So everyone kind of has to be on their toes. If they're getting close to you and you're like, okay, I think they might hit me, you need to be ready to put something down. And it's like you put it down and you're like, okay, I think they might hit me, you need to be ready to put something down. And it's like you put it down and you say quick draw, and if they don't put it down within a second, then they don't get to have their you know that extra uh card to kind of quick draw, so you could catch them off guard almost, which would benefit you when you actually go to the duel. Maybe this, this time they can only put down, uh, certain cards, or you get to pull a card out of their hand because they didn't quick draw fast enough. So I thought that was oh man, that's kind of neat. Keeps your, the people in the room like a little more on their toes and engaged.
Speaker 1:So here's how I would change that. Here's how I would change that yeah, you do the quick draw, right, and if you are attacking somebody, you pick up like a die that has certain you know pips on it or whatever symbols. Yeah, and you say quick draw, you lay down the card that you're attacking with and then you roll this die until either they get a card down or you roll a specific symbol and the you know the symbols on the card either add to your attack or, if they don't get one down before you roll a specific symbol, then like they don't get to respond that would be cool, that'd be good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I was a huge fan of these ideas that that it brought up. I will say the first one shot, putting prompt in chat GBT it didn't go, it didn't flush it out like super in depth and I couldn't really action this. And, you know, I'd need to fill in some of the blanks which I am actually really good with. I'd need to fill in some of the blanks which I am actually really good with, because I like using AI to begin the creativity and then I can use my human brain to get it to execution, and so you and I were able to fill in the gaps from what ChatGPT gave me. Yeah, but it's still. I mean, I think overall it did a really good job. I am personally I'm a fan of the Western Legends high noon showdown, so, yeah, I love that it did suggest a price of 30 dollars.
Speaker 1:Um, I think that's pretty much on par for some of their smaller expansions yeah.
Speaker 2:so I think, overall, chat gpt, you did a. You did a decent job. Now here's what I'm going to do for the podcast. I think I'm going to pitch you the, the google ai. It's a little bit quicker and a little bit um, more streamlined, but then you get to decide which one you're going to choose. So what? Okay, what do you think you think that's good? Yeah, let me pull up gemini. So this one I said the same exact thing to to gemini and it spat out western legends, ghost town, gold rush. It's a little bit more pricey, it's 35 to 45, okay, um.
Speaker 2:But this expansion introduced a supernatural element, uh, into the wild wild west, focusing on a deserted mining town plagued by ghostly activity and the lure of hidden spectral gold. It adds a new game board overlay, new character cards, new item cards, new ghost cards and a new type of gold that is in the program and a new type of gold that is in the program. So I think, overall, gemini gave me something that was more actionable, that I could just literally read this, as this is the rules for this new board game, and I think it's maybe because the AIs are learning how I think and how I'm asking questions and I may have. Like my AI for chat GPT is like oh, he wants things quicker, smaller, bite-sized and and I've used chat GPT more so it knows me more than Gemini does yeah, so I think overall Gemini did a better job of just giving me something I can just literally read through it. Yeah, but the whispering g Gulch overlay of the base game Okay, it's going to add that abandoned mind.
Speaker 2:It's going to add a new saloon that is haunted, so you're going to play ghost poker with ghosts Okay, ghost poker with ghosts. Okay, it's got a haunted hotel that you can get some rest and recruit duration but also some mini games included in that haunted hotel. Now, the, the spectral gold I think I'm spelling that or saying that correctly. I'm spectral isral. Is that an actual thing?
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, like a specter, like a ghost, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, spectral, I should just turn this over to you because I am struggling here. But in the base game you can go mining. You roll a die, see if you can get these nuggies the nuggets, right. Well. Now you're going into an abandoned mine Okay, the nuggets, right. Well. Now you're going into an abandoned mind, okay, and you're going to go down into this pit and there's ghosts. There may or may not be ghosts, so you don't know what's going to happen, and maybe this is a very ferocious ghost that you have to attack. Maybe there's a friendly ghost that comes out.
Speaker 2:They'll cast for action yeah, and then you have to interact with this ghost or not to get more or less of this gold. Maybe it's normal gold, but maybe it is haunted gold and this gold would have different abilities, help you get different cards or more money when you take it back into the town. But if you're playing with the ghosts, there's some drawbacks there, so you'll have to handle these ghosts in certain ways. What's the last thing it talks about is the these ghost cards. Whenever you go do any ghostly activities. Um, they could have curses on these ghost cards.
Speaker 2:Okay, some of them maybe it's a good thing gives you, maybe you can travel faster, maybe you can put extra cards down when you're in battles or something like that, but most of them are negative. All right, you're, you're dancing with the devil. Okay, you got the ouija board out. Things aren't going well for you. But this could also be driven into like the storyline where you get to put down your your player token on it. So I was like this is also very good. Like I said, it's more detailed. It also goes into other modifications to the story cards the item cards, additional like ghost hunting items, like that.
Speaker 1:So here's here's my stance on this. Like one, your high noon expansion is like the zig to this one's zag. Right, the High Noon is very much in line with the expansions that have already come out, whereas the Spectral Ghost Mine or whatever the heck that one was named from Gemini, that one is like completely off the rails. They're going to do something completely new and I don't mind it. It's pretty cool. I think it would shake that game up pretty significantly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it kind of reminds me of I don't know if you've ever played Red Dead Redemption. It's a video game and it's basically like Cowboy Sim to the max. You can ride your horses and you can lasso people and you can you know wrangle cattle and you can rob banks and do all this stuff. And the first game had an expansion that came out that was called Undead Nightmare and they just took the entire map and they're like what if we just added old-timey Western zombies to it? And so you'll rob a bank and all of a sudden, as you're on your getaway from this bank robbery, all of a sudden you're getting attacked by a horde of zombies. It's crazy. But this is kind of like that zag where it's unpredictable and weird.
Speaker 2:But I, I don't mind it, I'm kind of here for it, yeah. So I mean, I I think it feels, yeah, it feels off brand, but maybe you're gonna hit or scratch and itch that the other versions don't. So maybe you're opening up your customer base here. Yeah, it feels more like steam punky instead of like you're just set in the 1800s and you know you're in the wild, wild West. But I like it, so I do too. That's cool, travis. Which one are you going with? Are you going with Western legends ghost town, gold rush, or a Western legends, high noon?
Speaker 1:I think high noon. I think high noon I. I just love the core game and the expansions that already exist that it'd be nice to have something in that same vein that shook up the gameplay just a little bit. I mean, maybe it's like a standalone version of this, like you know how nemesis has, like its expand alone games that spectral gold, ghost, mine or whatever. Uh, that one might be a good like expand alone to this that you can lay it on top or you can add components to the base game or you can just keep it completely separate.
Speaker 2:That's, that's pretty cool, maybe go with like totally change it, don't even call it western legends, just change the whole theme to like Ghostbusters. But there's probably already a Ghostbusters board game. I'm sure, there is All right.
Speaker 1:Are you ready for your pitch? I'm ready. Okay, so I did not ask multiple GBTs and in fact my prompt to chat GBT was very simple. It just said take the existing board game and the existing expansions and pitch me a new expansion for X game. Not the X games, but like X being the variable, the game yes. So I'll let you choose your own adventure. I got lost. Ruins of Arnak, I've got. I've got a feast for odin or I have camel up whoa which one do you want?
Speaker 1:I think I want to go with feasties, please oh feast for odin okay this is called a feast for odin, the, the Norse Seas Really, the Norse Seas, the theme. The Vikings set sail for even greater horizons In the North Seas. Players expand their seafaring capabilities, venturing to distant lands, engaging in trade, raiding and uncovering new opportunities for wealth and glory. Not a whole lot that's different there, okay. Okay, this one has a high seas board, not North Sea. A high seas board featuring distant islands, naval trade routes and legendary raids.
Speaker 1:Players can send ships to establish settlements, trade goods or raid fortresses. This one has long ship upgrades and customizations so you can upgrade your sails and your crews, and reinforced holes to navigate the North Seas. Oh, my gosh, I love it. This one has naval events that can impact your voyages, like storms, sea monsters and foreign merchants that you can come across. Okay, ships must navigate the elements, balancing risk and reward. A little bit of push your luck. I imagine it's kind of like, um, like hunting or fishing in, yeah, where you're like rolling a die to see if it shakes out. Um, this one has exotic trade goods, a naval settlement tile that allows players to establish sea-based colonies for passive income.
Speaker 1:okay, I do like that new occupations and strategies 50 plus new occupation cards. It doesn't really say what. Yeah, just 50 new ones, why not? And then, uh, new strategic paths to victory focusing on long range trade, naval supremacy or island settlements I do like that, so it could be almost like another island or like a shed type thing.
Speaker 2:That's yeah, this is 20 points. If you can, you know, get your ship on the on this track, or something like that, or yeah, oh, yeah, oh it's a little bare bones, especially that one.
Speaker 1:It didn't really know how to expand it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the way I try and give the 30-second elevator speech about Feast for Odin is it's like a puzzle game where you're gathering resources and worker placement to somehow modify those resources that you're going to put on these boards, yeah, and you're trying to build your engine by leaving certain spaces uncovered. I would. I would imagine there's some more player interaction, like I would like to see like ship against ship, player to player, something along those lines in the high sea. I could see that being awesome. Like or you had mentioned like trading. I think trading between players would also be an interesting, awesome expansion for this. Yeah, uh, like maybe you go set up a settlement over here in this location and the other players need to send their boats to you and you both get like some kind of standardized like um trading option and maybe that's, maybe that's another worker placement location. I, I don't know. Like, I think there's a. There's a lot to go into this. I what? What if you?
Speaker 1:what, if you like, put your workers or your little vikings on a spot that allows you to establish a new settlement and you take a, you take a square that blocks the negative points at the end of the game and you put it on another person's island, and so you are giving them a benefit of taking away some of those negative points, but you, you like, get the resources that they get automatically each round, or something like that.
Speaker 2:That would be kind of cool. I do like that, and you could maybe even put it in a location that maybe they weren't really expecting you to put it on. It's a benefit, but you get to drive that where it places and how it affects that person. So I don't know, maybe that's one of my things about feast for odin the only real player interaction is who can get to the right spot first. Right, once you get there, then you can't. You can't place another worker on that location. But other than that, not a whole lot of work, player interaction. You're kind of playing your own little game.
Speaker 2:I would yeah, I would like to see more options where I need to go look and see what's on travis's boards or like what's what's he got? He got more sheds than he has, islands, or yeah, I think we talked about it last week. Like you can pick your own adventure in feast for odin. It's so fun. But imagine now you're intertwining that with other players and more player interaction. Uwe Rosenberg, right, he's the guy who made this one. He might need to get us on his staff. You know, call us up. Operation Game Night is here with the ideas.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're basically on like the Feast for Odin circuit at this point, like he's bound to notice you at some point, so you just keep grinding, then he's bound to notice you and bring you on board. Is he gonna be at dice tower west? Uh, he, I doubt it. I think he's german, but yeah, on that do you? Want to hear another one? I that was pretty quick. Do you want to hear the lost ruins of arnak?
Speaker 2:let me. Well, let me, you can choose whichever one. I'm interested in either one. Which one are you most interested in? I kind of like the camel up one a little bit well, so hit me with the camel up one. I don't actually know the real expansion to camel up, so I, because I heard there was an expansion, so this one, yeah, there is?
Speaker 1:that is I'm not sure, but this one is called the sandstorm sprint. Oh yeah, fierce sandstorm has swept across the desert, altering the race course and adding new unpredictable twists. As a camel sprint towards victory, shifting dunes, desert nomads and mirages make betting even more unpredictable. The start of each round, you roll a sandstorm die to determine if a sandstorm moves across the track. If triggered, the sandstorm tile shifts, forcing camels to move backwards, sideways or stall for a round. There's oasis nomads and mirage tiles. Players can place nomad tokens at Oasis to provide temporary movement boosts. It's basically like the cheers and the heckles, or whatever it is. Mirage Tiles create optical illusions, tricking camels into taking wrong turns or getting lost for a turn.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:Caravan Camels Unexpected interferences. A neutral caravan of camels occasionally crosses the track, blocking movement or pushing racing camels forward. Ooh, players can bet on the caravan's unexpected interactions to create chaos. Okay, desert relics and lucky amulets a new betting and bonus system. Players can earn lucky amulets by making risky bets or landing on special board spaces. These amulets allow re-rolls, extra movement or even the ability to predict a sandstorm's path. Oh, that's pretty cool. I like that, I do. And then betting options like the sandstorm bet or the rescue bet allows players to predict which camel will escape the chaos and make a comeback interesting. That's pretty. So it says there's a, there's two expansions, there's a camel up super cup and a camel up off season hmm, and this works even without either of those expansions.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like that. Is it add like cause? You know, camel up, we're going one direction around one circle. Is it adding like multiple branches, you think, or we're still on the same, like circular track?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it must add something. If people, if camels, can get lost, maybe they like, maybe it has like a little side, like little u-shape, where it just like diverts them for like maybe three squares or whatever and send them around and like that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:I think it's giving me like a candy land vibe. Yeah you land on the gumdrop, and now you're you you get chutes and ladders way up here or something like that. I do like that. You know me, I'm a big party guy too, so this is perfect.
Speaker 1:It just makes it a little more chaotic. I like it.
Speaker 2:Just when you thought it wouldn't get any more, crazy, crazy camels come flying out of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, there's so many like this. This is the one that it expanded on the most. It's got like new mechanics, like asymmetrical abilities and all sorts of weird stuff. It also came up with a champion of the dunes expansion, which has like character roles and asymmetric abilities, like predictive genius, that allows you to peek at the next two dice before they're rolled. I don't know how that works.
Speaker 2:You'd have to have maybe a different dropping mechanism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or like one of those like dungeon master shields and you like roll behind and then you get to like put it out there the mirage merchant, the fortune teller, desert nomad, trickster, prince, caravan master and sandstorm writer. It's got a whole bunch of other like characters that you can play as that have special abilities, but I was pretty impressed like it really expanded on that one and came up with some cool systems I, I would be interested in like, yeah, what?
Speaker 2:what kind of like player abilities because right now the players are just like you know, you're just using that to designate who's making bets. If each individual player could have their own you know side bet or or like side abilities, or something like that. Like this guy, if the yellow camel is like on top of a stack, it it moves the whole stack, or something like you know. Like, yeah, just interesting extra player abilities, I think that would also be really cool.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, one kind of bet one can bet. Um can place a secret bet. The fortune teller can place a secret bet after the first die of the round is rolled. Uh, the desert nomad is an oasis expert. Gains extra coins when placing the oasis tile. The trickster prince is a sabotage specialist can switch two camels' positions once per race, causing unpredictable outcomes. The Tactical Gambler, the Caravan Master, can place a side bet on the second place, camel earning double if it wins.
Speaker 2:Whoa. Okay, that is dope. I like that. That's pretty cool. Peace, see. I want to get old Paul Solomon back on here and pick his brain about how much does he use ChatGPT or AI to help him with. Some of the games that he was pitching to us or talking about are so cool and unique. Talking about like are so cool and unique and I wonder, like, if they do use like chat gbt to kind of like fill in some holes or come up with they like hit our dead end. And yeah, or maybe, maybe he's very anti-ai, I don't know like, I'm interested in like, how, how do the actual game producers, designers, how do they feel? Or you know that their interest in ai, yeah, so I think it like.
Speaker 1:I think it depends.
Speaker 1:I think some people will use ai and they claim it on their box like art by ai or whatever it is. Oh, really, we talked about, uh, we talked with sam from mesmer realm and he said, yeah, I'm coming out with this game. I use like half of it is ai art, some of it is hand-drawn art and I've kind of used a mix of the two. I've actually seen people that like do their little passion projects and stuff and they'll put on it like I used ai art because it was easier and I like the way it turned out and so, like you know, if you're going to use it, at least be upfront.
Speaker 1:People like Ares Games they got into a lot of flack because some of the expansions and expandalones for Terraforming Mars they used AI art but didn't tell anybody and it was this whole controversy. So I know that there's a lot of controversy in how and when people use ai ai driven stuff for board games. But as long as you're up front about it and people don't mind paying you for a game that you know it took 30 seconds to generate on a on a ai prompt, you know right, I guess it's all what the consumer is willing to accept.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do think too, it's going to affect each and every industry a little bit differently. Even, like we were talking about earlier in academics, like at school I'm going to now they're open to us using AI. They know we're going to use it, so you might as well just accept it. And then how do you put left and right bounds on it to make sure people aren't just mind-mushing and pushing in crap and they're not learning anything from it, and so I think there's a good balance to using it and then, like you said, being upfront with what is being created or used by it or um original thought is going to be, I think, even more powerful moving forward. So, yeah, I don't know, it's a, it's a wild time and you even mentioned quantum earlier in the podcast. You said it and I'm like, even quantum computing if you dig into that rabbit hole, if, like, you start laying, layering some of these technologies on top of each other, like we're on the verge of some just incredible um stuff happening in our lifetime, I think yeah, shoot, uh.
Speaker 1:Was it google just created like a new phase of matter for their new quantum computing chip?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's, it's incredible like it's unreal, unreal.
Speaker 1:I got a crying baby, so give me just a second.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're fine hey, all right, we're big, big friends of gwen on the podcast, okay, so clay cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I do have a. I have a new game that ai designed specifically for you whoa, you're talking about uh, your leader school and you know use of ai uh. This is a game specifically for acsc students and they're designed around some of your favorite uh board game mechanics, using mechanics from skull spots, bonanza for sale all of your favorite party games.
Speaker 1:This I hate the name. I hate it. It's called sky Lords the battle for air supremacy. That's incredible. Sky Lords, sky Lords Uh. The theme is players take on the roles of air force squadron leaders, ie commanders engaging in high stakes mission, bluffing rival commanders and strategically managing their resources to dominate the skies. The game blends betting, bluffing and tactical decision making and a fast-paced party-style experience. So each round, a mission card is revealed intercept the enemy, strategic bombing, close air support, electronic warfare, etc. Players secretly bid resources, fuel pilots and aircraft to see who will execute the mission. Some missions have hidden risks encouraging bluffing. Did your opponent really allocate top pilots or are they bluffing?
Speaker 2:So it's. It's a battle between, like it's, we're in the same wing and we're battling between commanders to see who is the top commander, who's going to get the top strat.
Speaker 1:Who's going to yeah, who's going to get the number one stratification on their report? Yeah, I mean I this is something I would probably tweak.
Speaker 1:maybe it's like different countries or you know, going at it or maybe it's world war three and we're all leading different nations. Yeah, so then squadron drafting and tactical die. Players build their squadron by drafting aircraft fighters, bombers, awacs, drones with unique abilities. Certain missions require specific aircraft combos, so players must balance their squadrons strategically. Dice rolls, resolve combat or mission outcomes modified by aircraft bonuses and pilot skills. I kind of like that.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool uh, I feel like there's uh, I mean you might get to it, but there's a gaping hole. Civil engineers uh, how is what is the status of your airfield? You know, I mean, right here you got two of the finest civil engineers there ever was no mention of. Uh, rapid runway repair our arresting systems. How are those doing?
Speaker 1:so this is not, this is not for nothing. But uh, rachel played a game that, like some major, made up on his free time in a weekend and he was doing it with like the DOs within her wing and it was. Rachel said it was not great, but I she gave me the like, the basic mechanics, and like in 30 seconds I made it a way better worker placement game about like dispersing aircraft and repairing runways and like coordinating, and you're it's like a cooperative game, like each player plays a different squadron. That's you know. And it's like a cooperative game Like each player plays a different squadron that's operating this mission.
Speaker 1:So you've got civil engineers and your maintenance and your operations and your security forces or whatever it is, and you're placing workers into these different spots, a la Dune Imperium and playing cards that get you different things and dispersing aircraft as airstrikes are coming in. So, anyways, interesting Back to Skylords. Skylords, there's a high-stakes auction where you are bidding to advance your tech upgrades like stealth coding, hypersonic missiles and refueling tankers. I kind of like that. Players must weigh short-term gains versus long-term strategy, as funding is limited, especially with 8% budget cuts.
Speaker 1:Did you get an?
Speaker 2:email about justifying your existence.
Speaker 1:Lots of people did Tactical planning and backstabbing. Some missions involve alliances and deception, where players must form or betray temporary coalitions. Special cards like Divert Resources or Intel Leak allow players to disrupt one another. You earn air supremacy points for successful missions, strategic deception and squadron efficiency. The game ends after six rounds of escalating missions and players with the most air supremacy points is declared Skylord, skylord. Anyways, that one's designed specifically for you. You can introduce it as your thesis for ACSC.
Speaker 2:Yes, I might have to add a side minigame of Crud inside somewhere. Yeah, maybe that's how you can beef up your pilot skill, your pilot conditioning the officer club Play crud.
Speaker 1:I do want to share one more thing. Okay, while this is not going to make for great podcasting, I want to share with you the artwork that I had it designed for my Lost Ruins of Arnak expansion yes, show me please, this is the only art that I had it designed, but basically the Lost Ruins of Arnak expansion is all underground caves that you're exploring.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, look at that, that's on brand, that's really good.
Speaker 1:It's like legitimately ripped from a box art of Lost Ruins of Arnak. It's crazy, but basically, like you have different explorers with, like the Expedition Leader, expansion, and they have different abilities, and then there's like different monsters that can move between caves in this underground board that you're playing on. I thought the artwork was really impressive.
Speaker 2:that's amazing to me, yeah I'm telling you I I used uh ai to help me with your guys's christmas gifts, like, oh yeah, get it moving in the right direction and, you know, come up with ideas. So I don't know, ai it's the way to go. But we, we kind of glossed over it a little bit but like lawyers are gonna really be overworked because of ai, I think, because some of this stuff is like well, you just ripped off my, I drew that and it was on google or whatever. Like that idea or that mechanism is copyrighted and you used it like intellectual property means nothing anymore.
Speaker 1:Like it's crazy. Yeah, I guess you would have to. It's the same thing as like people that draw mickey mouse and they say, like this is know Dickie Mouse or whatever they call him. Like the likeness and the similarities and stuff is going to be play a heavy role. But anyways, are we ready to go over the fence? Let's go over the fence. Tell me what you've been doing outside of board gaming.
Speaker 2:So outside of board gaming. I, this is kind of a. It's weird, cause I probably should have done this at the beginning when I debriefed my week, but this whole week I've been war gaming. Um, so I guess it's kind of board gaming, but uh, it's like board gaming with 12 other people have very specific, you know, intentions or yeah. Anyways, it's tough managing all these expectations and stuff and it's interesting because everyone has different pieces of the puzzle and we're all trying to. How would we react to this? And it's been an interesting week.
Speaker 2:I wanted to shout out one of my fellow classmates. We call her Gigi. She's a reservist. We call her Gigi because she's a grandma. She's turning 50 soon. She's awesome and she made us tacos. So you know me, you can never play a board game without feeding us. So she made some awesome. I think she called it like marry me chicken or something like that it was. It was insane, very good, very delicious. Also, she let me drive her Jeep. Um, cause I had a test this week and that thing's got a big old Hemi in it and um.
Speaker 1:So shout out to Gigi, but um thanks, gigi, big old hemi in it and um, so shout out to gg. But um, thanks, gg. Uh, over the fence, rachel and I have been revisiting the last of us on hbo max and I have been replaying through the video game and I played a bunch of other like board game type video games like, uh, dwarf romantic have you ever heard of dwarf romantic? No, you're like building out little european towns with these little tiles and you can rotate the tiles so that, like, if one side is forest and different, you know crops or whatever, and you're like rotating these tiles to match and make these giant small little villages next to forest next to farmland yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:It's like the video game adaptation. I've never played the board game, but I imagine that it's way more work to play the board game when the video game can load it up and calculate your score like that. You know, yeah, um. So I've been playing that and uh, civilization 7 just came out yeah yeah people are into it, I got it um, and it is probably the most board game-esque civilization I've played yet.
Speaker 1:Uh the other ones are kind of like a board game. This one feels very board game, like it lays it out in this like hex, tile, grid, and you're like looking down at it like it's a like it's a board game and you're like using resources to pay for different influence and gold and you know buildings and stuff like that and it feels very board gamey.
Speaker 1:So yeah, lots of stuff outside of board gaming and uh, we're getting ready to move here the next couple months, so crazy exciting, have have you guys, uh, jumped on the severance train yet, yeah, we are all caught up on severance. We love it we love it.
Speaker 2:Adrian and I watched the first season a while ago and I think she dropped off like halfway through because she's like, okay, this is kind of weird or dumb, yeah. And then everyone is non-stop talking about severance. So she's like, okay, I think we can give it another chance. So we started rewatching Severance. We haven't gotten very far. So I am excited to see what lies ahead, because what's all this buzz about?
Speaker 1:We just freshly rewatched that not too long ago and we finished the first season basically like right, as the second season was starting and the first season definitely has like a dip in it where it slows way down. But if you push past that, the last couple episodes are like like our hands were like all sweaty and like it was pretty like white knuckle the last little bit and then basically season one ends and you can go straight into season two like it's part two of season one, like it continues on immediately afterwards. So yeah, you're gonna love it.
Speaker 2:It's great I'm looking forward to it. So maybe next week I'll have uh, that'll be my over the fence, who knows? Yeah I can't wait did we do it?
Speaker 1:I think we did it awesome. This has been episode 28 of the operation game night podcast. We may or may not be Androids living in an AI world, but we passed the cheering test.
Speaker 2:I love that. It was a beautiful little uh egg Easter egg.
Speaker 1:We love you, clay. We love you. Congratulations, clay, and we will see you next week. Thank you.
